------- start of forwarded message ------- From: bobmohney@aol.com (Bob Mohney) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.misc Subject: Re: [METW] LIDLESS EYE Date: 24 Feb 1997 22:06:47 GMT >>Does anyone but me feel a little uncomfortable with the number of "evil" elves in Dark Minions? Based on Cliff's comments above, it appears there will be more in MELE. Based on my readings of Tolkien, an elf that turns to evil is extremely rare. Any comments? -Tim<< This has become a rather interesting discussion here on the net. Given how serious the objections seem to be, ICE thought it might be a good idea to put forth our justification for the Elven characters that appear as servants of Sauron. The first passage that comes to mind (well, that actually came to Jessica Ney-Grimm's mind) follows: "And Orome loved the Quendi, and named them in their own tongue Eldar, the people of the stars; but that name was after borne only by those who followed him upon the westward road. Yet many of the Quendi were filled with dread at his coming; and this was the doing of Melkor. For by after-knowledge the wise declare that Melkor, ever watchful, was first aware of the awakening of the Quendi, and sent shadows and evil spirits to spy upon them and waylay them. So it came to pass, some years ere the coming of Orome, that if any of the Elves strayed far abroad, alone or few together, they would often vanish, and never return; and the Quendi said that the Hunter had caught them, and they were afraid. And indeed the most ancient songs of the Elves, of which echoes are remembered still in the West, tell of the shadow-shapes that walked the hills above the Cuivienen, or would pass suddenly over the stars; and of the dark Rider upon his wild horse that pursued those that wandered to take them and devour them. Now Melkor greatly hated and feared the riding of Orome, and either he sent indeed his dark servants as riders, or he set lying whispers abroad, for the purpose that the Quendi should shun Orome, if ever they should meet. Thus it was when Nahar neighed and Orome indeed came among them, some of the Quendi hid themselves, and some fled and were lost. But those that had courage, and stayed, perceived swiftly that the Great Rider was no shape out of darkness; for the light of Aman was in his face, and all the noblest of the Elves were drawn towards it." Simarillion, 49-50 Here is another important passage from Tolkien's descriptions of the early mannish races: "Yet it is told that ere long they met Dark Elves in many places, and were befrended by them; and Men became the companions and disciplines in their childhood of these ancient folk, wanderers of the Elven-race who never set out upon the paths to Valinor, and new of the Valar only as a rumor and a distant name." Simarillion, 104 In his descriptions of the making of the rings, after describing all the great places such as the havens and Ost-in-Edhil, Tolkien goes on to say: "Elsewhere in Middle-earth there was peace for many years; yet the lands were for the most part savage and desolate, save only where the people of Beleriand came. Many Elves dwelt there indeed, as they had dwelt through countless years, wandering free in the wide lands far from the Sea; but they were Avari, to whom the deeds of Beleriand were but a rumor and Valinor only a distant name. ... Men he found the easiest to sway of all the peoples of the Earth; but long he sought to persuade the Elves to his service, for he knew that the Firstborn had the greater power; and he went far and wide among them, and his hue was still that of one both fair and wise. Only in Lindon he did not come, for Gil-galad and Elrond doubted him and his fair-seeming, and though they knew not who in truth he was they would not admit him to that land. But elsewhere the Elves received him gladly, and few among them hearkened to the messengers of Lindon bidding them to beware;..." Simirillion, 286-287 In the first age there were lots of elves in Middle-earth other than the Noldor, Sindar, etc. As the first passage shows, some of these elves feared the Valar, and may well have been open to corruption by Melkor and his servants. Such elves could still be in the service of darkness even in the third age. By the second age, Sauron was himself recuiting Eleves into his service. In one instance, this lead to the creation of the rings, as the Noldor listened to his council and began their works at Ost-in-Edhil. Other Elves, specificly Dark Elves, could have been recuited as messengers, servents, etc. Once Sauron loses his beautiful visage after Numenor was destroyed, many may have left (though I couldn't find a passage where Tolkien explicitly says that they did), but some of them may have remained, motivated by fear, greed, or pride. Another argument that has been presented on the board (though not presented in Tim's posting), is that the elves had a huge hatred of Melkor/Sauron and would never have served him. This claim is very true of the Noldor (and perhaps the Sindar who were greatly influenced by the Noldor and who had at least begun the journey to Valinor) but does not necessarily represent the views of all elves living in Middle-earth. Dark elves living East of the Misty Mountain (indeed, East of the sea of Rhun), would not have been greatly effected by the wars in Beleriand and later between Sauron and the Last allience, and given the legacy of Melkor planted against Orome, may well have been fearful of the Valar and open to the influence of Sauron. Though wiser than humans, elves did make a variety of mistakes and performed horrendous deeds (just look at the family history of Feanor). It is conceivable that some of them could have made the choice to join with Sauron. Once in the Dark Lords service, leaving may not have been an option. In any case, keep in mind we are talking about a small number (less than five) of Unique cards as full blown Minions of Sauron. Given the number of orcs (many of which are non-unique and can represent a variety of individuals in the service of Sauron), we are only introducing a handful of elves directly working for the Dark Lord. Given a close reading of both the Lord of the Rings and the Simirillion, it is ICE's stance that this is perfectly in keeping with the both the spirit and intent of the text. Bob Mohney Iron Crown Enterprises Events Director ------- end of forwarded message -------