From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #96 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Sunday, August 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 096 Today's subjects from The Edge: Re: [The Edge] Alien Vampires Re: [The Edge] Alien Vampires [The Edge] Re: The Edge Digested V1 #95 Re: [The Edge] Re: The Edge Digested V1 #95 [The Edge] Re: Immunity [The Edge] Question on Surprise Re: [The Edge] Question on Surprise Re: [The Edge] Is the list dead? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:17:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Alien Vampires On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Mark Kinney wrote: > I think I listed a lot of possibilities before... I may have zapped them > to shorten the message. I'll get into them later, but you can expect big > presences by (yes) the Malks, Lasombra, Ventrue, Toreador, Setite, and > whatever Ravnos can get through customs. :-) personally, i cant believe any vampire would consider risking its unlife going to Al Amarja. no place on earth would hold as many serious threats to them personally or the Masquerade in general. my guess is that vampires, esp. those in control, would take every step possible to sanction the island... and erase it from memory. which is more or less already in the background of the game. Al Amarja, the unknown island... if you posit that the cloak of misdirection covering the island is upheld by Vampires, you dont have far to go to see that it is a dumping ground for this toxic to them and the Masquerade. what would become of the world if Vornite mind control or Gladstein high tech or Pharaoh personality cults were to gain momentum? when around every corner of the island is some alien with an aggravated damage death ray or some psychic child who can knock a vampire flat, it seems like a pretty nasty place for Vampires. if you even think about the difficulties of feeding off a highly drug oriented or non-human population or trying to avoid the absolute domination and presence of Monique, you run into huge logistical difficulties for any Vampire on the island. taking the existing background as read, only the desparate or foolhardy Vampire would venture Over The Edge. > What if the Pharoahs are actually the Antediluvians, and the Sages were > the Second Generation? Thus the Pharoahs can Fortitude themselves around > in daylight and use extreme Dominate on people. now this would make an _excellent_ variant history for Al Amarja. eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:30:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Alien Vampires On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Mark Kinney wrote: > Hmm... there's still the question of gaining access to the Kindred -- most > of them won't need the School thanks to Auspex. Otherwise... maybe. The > question is what would happen as the Kegillian takes over... at some > point, the original host's mind may not exist anymore, and *then* what? personally, i dont think the Kergillians would even try to implant a vampire. the minute they trapped someone, they would find out this was not a normal MonkeyBoy and, after a little more research, set up a whole wave of anti-vampire measures. i dont think an implant would actually take on a Vampire. an implant is a living thing and a vampire is not. the implant requires a living host to feed it and to graft to its neural network. instead, you should consider the other route; a vamprie embraces someone who has an implant. remember Kergillians are "different"; they have odd compulsions and desires. > Perhaps, although he may be more useful to the Powers That Be alive. The > Neutralizers may let the more benevolent vampires alone, but having lots > wandering around, particularly in high places, will worry them. You also > want to avoid having all the big names be Kindred (this is one of the few > things I cringe at about the WoD). i think the Neutralizers would take every step to eliminate vampires as soon as they became aware of them. these arent your garden variety psi user, you know. either that, or the Neutralizers are a major tool of enforcing the Masquerade on the island. one of the best uses for a Vamprie/OvTE crossover is to humble vampires or OvTE characters. Vampires will have grown complacent ignoring the normal people; when they come to Al Amarja and find that the bum on the corner is from another _star_ and that there is an intricate web of highly aware and lethal humans seeking to manipulate _everyone_ they will be brought back to earth about who holds the reigns. For OvTE characters "used" to the Edge, becoming aware of a global, secret, all-powerful group of Vampires running _everything_ from the shadows should send the Control Addicted minds into loops. > Inhabit human bodies, yes... but they're already dead. Of course, I don't > remember offhand if SACQ was supposed to be a neurotoxin or not -- it may > work then, but if it depends on blood circulation at all, forget it. Selective Annihilation in Close Quarters. an extremely lethal neurotoxin keyed to the genetic structure of D'Aubainnes and Dr. Nusbaum. it wont affect the already dead. eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Lightner" Subject: [The Edge] Re: The Edge Digested V1 #95 On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, it was written: > Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:05:29 -0500 (CDT) > From: Eric Jome > Subject: Re: [The Edge] immunity > > On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Alex Rodriguez wrote: > > > we were reading up on immunity last night and if we understand it > > correctly, a character that is Immune:Astral could use a Dark > > Aura Ring and also use two Negative Energies without any adverse > > effect. > > well, you got it right! that's exactly how immunity works... stick those > Negative Energies on Sir Arthur for a solid defense. and because the Dark > Aura Ring doesnt affect the person who wears it, it will work with someone > who is immune:Astral... but not against someone who is immune. Compton > laughs at your Moody Ring. :) Hmm. This isn't exactly how I've been playing, though I think I see what you mean. I agree with your assessment of the Dark Aura Ring, because it affects OTHER Characters without any role being taken by the Character using the Gear. But if I'm not mistaken, Negative Energy, by means of an Astral effect, gives its Character the ability to give another Character a - -5 penalty. Since this is an Astral effect on the Character with the Condition, I'm pretty sure that an Immune: Astral Character would not be able to use that ability. Rob Lightner [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:12:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Re: The Edge Digested V1 #95 On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, R. Lightner wrote: > Hmm. This isn't exactly how I've been playing, though I think I see what > you mean. I agree with your assessment of the Dark Aura Ring, because > it affects OTHER Characters without any role being taken by the Character > using the Gear. But if I'm not mistaken, Negative Energy, by means of an > Astral effect, gives its Character the ability to give another Character a > -5 penalty. Since this is an Astral effect on the Character with the > Condition, I'm pretty sure that an Immune: Astral Character would not be > able to use that ability. actually, Negative Energy doesnt give an ability to a character. the -5 Power is applied to the enemy character. the important part to Arthur is the "flip after using" bit; Sir Arthur, being immune:astral, is not flipped (or popped) when using Negative Energy. NE and Dark Aura Ring are very much the same in their application, but NE has a side effect of flipping the user... no side effect for Arthur. note, though, that NE cannot be used if you are surprised, as it is a voluntary effect. Dark Aura Ring, however, is always putting out da Bad Vibe, surprise or no. eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:16:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Clay Colwell Subject: [The Edge] Re: Immunity On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, R. Lightner wrote: > On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, it was written: > > > > well, you got it right! that's exactly how immunity works... stick those > > Negative Energies on Sir Arthur for a solid defense. and because the Dark > > Aura Ring doesnt affect the person who wears it, it will work with someone > > who is immune:Astral... but not against someone who is immune. Compton > > laughs at your Moody Ring. :) > > Hmm. This isn't exactly how I've been playing, though I think I see what > you mean. I agree with your assessment of the Dark Aura Ring, because > it affects OTHER Characters without any role being taken by the Character > using the Gear. But if I'm not mistaken, Negative Energy, by means of an > Astral effect, gives its Character the ability to give another Character a > -5 penalty. Since this is an Astral effect on the Character with the > Condition, I'm pretty sure that an Immune: Astral Character would not be > able to use that ability. FWIW, the FAQ in Surviving On The Edge addresses this question (pg. 181): an Immune:Astral character may use it without deleterious effects on itself, and the opponent suffers the -5 penalty. (Note that Immune: does not mean that the Character cannot *use* cards with Trait ; it means that said Character is *not* *affected* by cards with said Trait . Forsooth, I can call Amok (a Psychic Condition) on a Character that is Immune:Psychic; it just won't *do* anything.) But I think your argument is that the Astral effect in the case of Negative Energy is "Be able to give opponent -5 Power", which probably has some merit to it. The wording is ambiguous; it should probably read something like "when used, Negative Energy gives -5 Power to enemy...". ****** Clay Colwell (aka StealthSmurf) ********** eris@bga.com ****** * "In the future, we will recognize software crashes as technologically * * mandated ergonomic rest breaks - and we will pay extra for them." * * -- Crazy Uncle Joe Hannibal * [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 14:12:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Clay Colwell Subject: [The Edge] Question on Surprise On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Eric Jome wrote: [NE -- Negative Energy] > note, though, that NE cannot be used if you are surprised, as it is a > voluntary effect. Dark Aura Ring, however, is always putting out da > Bad Vibe, surprise or no. What happens when a Character with a Vibro-Blaster gets Surprised? One can choose not to use Gear (including weapons): in this case, does the Surprised Character automatically use the Vibro-Blaster (and lose the 1 Power after combat)? ****** Clay Colwell (aka StealthSmurf) ********** eris@bga.com ****** * "In the future, we will recognize software crashes as technologically * * mandated ergonomic rest breaks - and we will pay extra for them." * * -- Crazy Uncle Joe Hannibal * [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 15:12:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Question on Surprise On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Clay Colwell wrote: > What happens when a Character with a Vibro-Blaster gets Surprised? > One can choose not to use Gear (including weapons): in this case, does > the Surprised Character automatically use the Vibro-Blaster (and > lose the 1 Power after combat)? the "choice" to use gear or not is a bit of a different kind of "choice" as to whether you invoke a card or ability, i think. abilities which are not allowed by surprise are, in general, things which a character must crank or flip to use. gear that adds to power does not generally fall into this type of voluntary use... so surprise will not allow you to catch someone with their Vibro Blaster down because they dont need to crank to use it. Negative Energy is a bit of a tough call. it is not Gear; it is a Condition. as a condition, you dont really get to decide if you can use it or not... normally. Negative Energy breaks the normal rules on Conditions and gives you a choice... that flips your character. thus, it falls into the same category as Whammies like Total Taxi and character abilities like Ricardo Cerdo. note that someone like Barber Hammock must have the Immune:Surprise in order to take advantage of his crank for +6 DP. this is not a clean issue inside of OnTE, but i hope i have helped to split the fine line for you. eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 23:44:34 -0400 From: Lee Saborio Subject: Re: [The Edge] Is the list dead? > I think what the poster wanted was a Resource that would become > Personified, gaining power as its breadth and influence spread. > Giving it extra Pull would be insane, though, and highly un- > balancing. > I thought maybe giving it pull would be too much. > > > Anyway, it needs a name (Living Lands would be anathema for > obvious reasons) -- Land Legs? Incarnation? Avatar? Whatever > it might get, it *screams* for an Astral trait. What about PUBLIC OPINION, you know, you've got public opinion on your side. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #96 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org