From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #84 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Sunday, July 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 084 Today's subjects from The Edge: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets [The Edge] Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets [The Edge] Class, Superclass, and the Individual [The Edge] Simon Wallop (D106) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:29:16 -0600 From: Trevor Stone Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Yanni Cooper said: >> Re: Death Dance - >> Well, other than the fact that Atavism: Ninja in >> combination with Kamikaze doesn't work ... >> >> To wit: Atavism: Ninja specifies "Target Human" and >> Kamikaze specifies that "Character's first trait is >> replaced with 'Nekros.' ... " >> >> Thus, when under the effect of Kamikaze, the character >> is Nekros, not Human, and therefore not Ninja. >Hmmm... but aren't there a couple of cards where Human >isn't the first trait? Seems to me you'd be able to do it >if you could find those cards. I suppose you could use Isil Zaya/UCT to give anybody Human as their last traight... Zaya's so cool... =-=-=-= Trevor Stone =-=-= aka Flwyd =-=-= tstone @ robin . ml . org =-=-=-= Eclectic philosopher, New Vista computer admin, gamer, witster, esotericist http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Thou warped clay-brained mammet! The people are revolting... in the good sense of the word. -- Jim Hightower [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "R. Lightner" Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, it was written: > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:09:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Yanni Cooper > Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets > > - ---Ivan Tuckwell wrote: > > Re: Death Dance - > > Well, other than the fact that Atavism: Ninja in > > combination with Kamikaze doesn't work ... > > > > To wit: Atavism: Ninja specifies "Target Human" and > > Kamikaze specifies that "Character's first trait is > > replaced with 'Nekros.' ... " > > > > Thus, when under the effect of Kamikaze, the character > > is Nekros, not Human, and therefore not Ninja. > Hmmm... but aren't there a couple of cards where Human > isn't the first trait? Seems to me you'd be able to do it > if you could find those cards. If you mean that there's Characters with the trait Human that have that trait listed AFTER another one, I believe you're mistaken. Almost every Character has their "type" trait (Human/Mutant/Sub-Random/whatever) first; the only exception I can think of is Stas Bendick, who has two such traits (Human, Nekros). If you just HAD to combine Atavism: Ninja with Kamikaze, you could put them on Isil Ziya and pay the extra Pull to give her the trait Human. I rarely have troubles with Kamikaze on its own, though. Here's a question: Do the rules make it clear what happens to the effects of a Condition like Atavism: Ninja if its target changes traits somehow? Does the card make its changes only when played and then stay just as a reminder, or is it constantly 'checking' to see if its conditions hold? It seems that most people play as though the latter were the case, but I don't know why that's necessarily true. Perhaps the Hymnal holds the answer? Something else to think about: The conditions that say "PLAY on Mutant [e.g.] only" would certainly provide their effects even if the Mutant [e.g.] status was lost. Perhaps this can be used to infer the answer to the previous question. - - Rob [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:47:23 -0600 From: Trevor Stone Subject: [The Edge] Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance As promised, here's what I came up with. I only own one Battle Bike, so if you have more, feel free to put 'em in. Zen teachers at the First School of True Sensation: Havani Shagasemi Takeshi Sumanoto The Art: James R. Cartwright (writing the book) Betty Frenum (student of Zen) Aurora Bolt Malak Suzier Mars Royale Inspiration 5 Contacts in the Art Scene Motorcycles: Battle Bike Hans Knudson Bjorn Nkwera Eric Gudne Peer Solgerkvist Saxolf Hermann Abbas Nadjafi Thor Runestone Leif Hardarson Bloodlust Frank Germaine Duro Trench (the riding jacket. replace with Battle Bike if possible) 6 Friends in Flowers Barrio Maintainance, and its sources Dimitri Vastavos Really Quite Angry Kid Oil Pan Annie Jacob Brinker Pistol Grip Chainsaw (heavily modified shop gear. replace with Battle Bike) Reek Rend Gum It Up Unexpected Difficulties =-=-=-= Trevor Stone =-=-= aka Flwyd =-=-= tstone @ robin . ml . org =-=-=-= Eclectic philosopher, New Vista computer admin, gamer, witster, esotericist http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Thou lumpish folly-fallen barnacle! If reincarnation is the case, a lot of people have screwed themselves over. They will be rebooting their Macs into Windows '95. -- me [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:52:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Yanni Cooper wrote: > Hmmm... but aren't there a couple of cards where Human > isn't the first trait? Seems to me you'd be able to do it > if you could find those cards. once a card is on, its on. therefore, if you play A:Ninja first and Kamikaze second, this combo works. :) and i dont think there are any characters that are human whose first trait is not human. generally, traits are listed as "race", "occupation(s)", and "description(s)"... take Giovanni Mancini as a classic; Human, Giovanni's Cabbie, Entreprenuer eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:25:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Clay Colwell Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, Trevor Stone wrote: > Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, > Yanni Cooper said: > >> Thus, when under the effect of Kamikaze, the character > >> is Nekros, not Human, and therefore not Ninja. > >Hmmm... but aren't there a couple of cards where Human > >isn't the first trait? Seems to me you'd be able to do it > >if you could find those cards. > > I suppose you could use Isil Zaya/UCT to give anybody Human as their last > traight... I thought that UCT didn't propagate the Human trait.... > Zaya's so cool... *That's* for sure. ****** Clay Colwell (aka StealthSmurf) ********** eris@bga.com ****** * "In the future, we will recognize software crashes as technologically * * mandated ergonomic rest breaks - and we will pay extra for them." * * -- Crazy Uncle Joe Hannibal * [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 15:35:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets On Fri, 17 Jul 1998, R. Lightner wrote: > Here's a question: Do the rules make it clear what happens to the effects > of a Condition like Atavism: Ninja if its target changes traits somehow? they sure do. :) once a condition is on, its on. if the condition later becomes illegal, it doesnt matter. this is in Surviving On The Edge. > Does the card make its changes only when played and then stay just as a > reminder, or is it constantly 'checking' to see if its conditions hold? hmmm. nothing does this "constant checking". there are times when a card would apply and would not apply, such as Money Talks and Isil Ziya... if you pay to make her an Entreprenuer, then she has the trait for the turn. if she is popped on another players turn, you lose no influence; she is not an Entreprenuer anymore. there are some interesting issues with Immunity and Gear as well. but always remember that if a card is legal to play on something, it stays active even if the current holder is later rendered an illegal target. > Something else to think about: The conditions that say "PLAY on Mutant > [e.g.] only" would certainly provide their effects even if the Mutant > [e.g.] status was lost. Perhaps this can be used to infer the answer to > the previous question. yes it can. :) eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:00:27 -0400 From: "Scott and Michelle McDaniel" Subject: [The Edge] Class, Superclass, and the Individual > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:09:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Yanni Cooper > Subject: Re: [The Edge]Applicable targets > > Been out of the loop for a while... expect lots late > replies to stuff. > > - ---Ivan Tuckwell wrote: > > Re: Death Dance - > > Well, other than the fact that Atavism: Ninja in > > combination with Kamikaze doesn't work ... > > > > To wit: Atavism: Ninja specifies "Target Human" and > > Kamikaze specifies that "Character's first trait is > > replaced with 'Nekros.' ... " > > > > Thus, when under the effect of Kamikaze, the character > > is Nekros, not Human, and therefore not Ninja. > Hmmm... but aren't there a couple of cards where Human > isn't the first trait? Seems to me you'd be able to do it > if you could find those cards. From out of nowhere... If I remember correctly, the "Target Human" only applies when calling the condition. The fact that the Human trait later changes does not affect the condition once it is on the character. Next concept. For the OTE/Compu-geek (like me). Consider an object oriented universe. Each person, each object that we see and interact with is an instance of the object. There can be other instances. When you listen to a song twice on a CD, does the band actually play it again each time? No. You have initiated a separate instance of the song. The attributes of that instance are modified by the background noise, the emotional state in which you listen, and all that has happened to you since the last time you heard the song. So have you heard the same song? But if you, reading this, are an instance of a fundamental object (or person), then what is that fundamental object? More importantly, how can you get control of it? And finally, it is probably worth hoping that another instance of you does not get control of it first. Or can an instance obtain control over the class? Scott McD. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:05:38 -0500 From: "Paul J. Lareau" Subject: [The Edge] Simon Wallop (D106) I was recently asked to explain this card, and suddenly found myself at a loss. I really haven't ever used it, but reading it carefully, it seems far more powerful than its cost would indicate, especially for a common that I don't see often in play. > If Pull=0, crank any time to get Influence equal to the > Pull just generated by an opponent's Character. He > has that amount of Pull until he uncranks (you may > use counters). Does this really mean that Simon can crank and take influence when any opponent cranks for pull? Or is there special meaning to the term "generated"? I take the last sentence to mean that influence can be subtracted by popping Simon any time before the beginning of his next turn. I have to be missing or misinterpreting something. If it means that, what's to keep the player from cranking him for influence on the influence pull of the player immediately to his right, thus generating riskless influence each turn? - -- Paul J. Lareau - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [POST] 135 E. Viking Dr. #301, Little Canada MN 55117 USA [HOME PAGE] http://www.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #84 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org