From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #67 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Wednesday, June 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 067 Today's subjects from The Edge: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device [The Edge] Where to Start From?? [The Edge] Decks, Devices, and the Problem with On the Edge Re: [The Edge] Decks, Devices, and the Problem with On the Edge Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device [The Edge] Where to Start From??] Re: [The Edge] Decks, Devices, and the Problem with On the Edge [The Edge] My favorite deck concept Re: [The Edge] My favorite deck concept ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:28:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Spike Y Jones Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Paul J. Lareau wrote: > > Keith Baker wrote: > > > > > 8 Throckmorton Devices > > > 8 Angela Reyes > > > 10 Intelligence Contacts > > > 18 Smear Campaigns > > > 12 Rampages > > > 5 Sabotages (in case an enemy Device gets the drop on you) > > > 5 Gang-a-Gleys > > > 14 Wheels of Fortune > > > > Oliver Hertel wrote: > > > Do you want to WIN or do you want to have fun? ;) > > The attitude has always been the other way among the OnTE players, from what I > can tell. And the idea of OMNI decks was well-established early on. The > highly strange, one-purpose decks are rarely seen. Quite a few folks share > Oliver's and my opinion that the fun is in playing balanced themes. I wonder > if it's a difference in personalities or game rules. Just so you know, Keith Baker also plays Omni League, and he plays a mean game of Omni, I'll tell you. The impression I got of Keith's Throck deck (based on the deck itself and his comments about not having looked at it for the longest time) is that he created it as a one-shot experiment, just to see how *this* kind of deck would behave, after which he disassembled it to see how some other kind of deck would do. Yes, it's degenerate, and yes, he wants to see if it can win, but he's also doing it for the fun. [O] [O] [O] Spike Y Jones [O]Spike[O] Freelance writer, editor, proofreader, and ex-bingo-caller [O] [O] [O] spikeyj@access.digex.net http://www.io.com/~spikeyj/ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:57:44 -0600 From: Keith Baker Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device At 09:13 AM 6/23/98 +0200, you wrote: >Argh, do you really play such kind of decks? We have the limitation >to three for each card, resources excluded. That's much more fun to >play. Who needs a KILLER deck? > >Do you want to WIN or do you want to have fun? ;) That all depends. When playing with fellow cell members, we tend to either play Omni or with a pool of theme decks we generated a while ago, which are well balanced to each other and which probably have no more than three repetions, if that (so let's play Comptons against Earthlings, Hermetics against the Cabal, etc). In these situations, I'm playing for fun. When I go to a tournament, on the other hand, I have to admit that I'm usually playing to win. I can play for fun all I want at home. I also like to experiment with unusual concepts; I wasn't sure that the characterless deck concept would work, and I was curious to see how it would play out against what other people came up with. For me, that deck IS a lot of fun. I'm for the "No Limits" rule, since it lets people come up with unusual concepts. I remember that we were trying to put together an deck that's only method of generating influence was using Funkasites, but we couldn't come up with enough of them in time. And as a side note, I believe that my Throck deck lost to a deck that had no repetitions at all, so multiples certainly don't ensure victory... [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:55:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Oliver Hertel wrote: > Argh, do you really play such kind of decks? We have the limitation > to three for each card, resources excluded. That's much more fun to > play. Who needs a KILLER deck? well, you might _want_ a killer deck for any number of reasons. but of course, you earn more respect winning with themes and omni than you do on a gimmick. when there are prizes involved though, some just cant settle for the mere fun of it. and, to wax a bit serious, the point of a tournament is winning. every player who enters should make a sincere effort to win... that is the ethical thing to do. entering a tournament with the intent to throw games or goof off can be met with real hostility. in real sports, its illegal to shave points and bet against yourself for a reason. :) lastly, about limits. i dont favor limits as i find that the decks themselves limit the utility of most cards. boosting most anything beyond 5 or 6 in a deck will often skew the decks ability to do some other basic task in the game, such as pull or defend. there are a few schemes which benefit from this, but they are few and far between... and often one hit wonders. either it works or it doesnt. trust me on this; i have built decks using 10+ Kidnaps or 10+ Sabotages or 10+ Possessions. and it can really throw a wrench into someones game. but often, people get creative awful darn quick (sometimes even in the same game!) and deal with the problems. eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:22:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Tammy Tayman Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Paul J. Lareau wrote: > > > > Do you want to WIN or do you want to have fun? ;) > > You know, that's a question I've often wondered about. Before getting > involved, rather accidently, in OnTE, I used to play Vampire: the Eternal > Struggle (V:tES). Although I have a lovely collection of V:tES cards, I had a > hard time enjoying the game because it seemed that EVERYONE played decks with > very repetitive cards. In fact, the attitude against playing with card > limitations was so deep that the mere mention of limitation brought flamewars > in the newsgroup. I once suggested that it would be fun just to play V:tES > with a deck as it comes, and I was ridiculed as an "obvious newbie rugrat" (I'm > 57!). > The attitude mentioned above is the reason why I got out of that OTHER card game (M:tg) and into OnTE. After a while it wasn't any fun anymore. > The attitude has always been the other way among the OnTE players, from what I > can tell. And the idea of OMNI decks was well-established early on. The > highly strange, one-purpose decks are rarely seen. Quite a few folks share > Oliver's and my opinion that the fun is in playing balanced themes. I wonder > if it's a difference in personalities or game rules. > I think that this is one of the greatest strengths of this game and the people who play it. We may be conniving, conspiratorial types, but we realized that there are more ways to play than using a thermonuclear device and ending the game. It's the playing that matters, not necessarily the winning. (Although the winning is fun, too! :) T1 [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:03:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Paul J. Lareau wrote: > > Do you want to WIN or do you want to have fun? ;) > > You know, that's a question I've often wondered about. sometimes, you can do both. thats my goal. :) here's a rule of thumb; if the losers turn to you at the end of the game and say "Man, that was a great game!" then you know that was a good win. :) > Before getting > involved, rather accidently, in OnTE, I used to play Vampire: the Eternal > Struggle (V:tES). Although I have a lovely collection of V:tES cards, I had a > hard time enjoying the game because it seemed that EVERYONE played decks with > very repetitive cards. certain cards in the basic game were very high utility. and the game had a limited set of possible deck styles. so, it is bound to seem repetitive. after all, how many people showed up with Malkavian Vote Decks? > In fact, the attitude against playing with card > limitations was so deep that the mere mention of limitation brought flamewars > in the newsgroup. nobody likes having their pet deck ground up by rules. actually, card limitations were not that necessary in this game either... again, solid deck construction gave you a better chance in an open field. > I once suggested that it would be fun just to play V:tES > with a deck as it comes, and I was ridiculed as an "obvious newbie rugrat" (I'm > 57!). we call this Sealed Deck. its kinda fun. :) > The attitude has always been the other way among the OnTE players, from what I > can tell. And the idea of OMNI decks was well-established early on. card distribution in Standard rocked. you should try booster league. :) > The highly strange, one-purpose decks are rarely seen. well, i hate to admit it, but a lot of OnTE players cant put together the real bad decks because they done own all the cards they need. just how many Prems do you have socked away? > Quite a few folks share > Oliver's and my opinion that the fun is in playing balanced themes. I wonder > if it's a difference in personalities or game rules. honestly, i think its both. some games dont encourage balanced themes as they dont offer much in the way of theme. Magic is like this. and reaching a consensus among your fellow players seems to be the best way of ensuring everyone has fun... at least, everyone who agrees and stays to play. :) eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:48:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Keith Baker wrote: > Actually, *MY* deck didn't go anything like that. It's been a while since > I've played, so I don't remember the precise numbers (and I'd have to try it > a few times to fine tune it) but the ratios were much closer to: > > 8 Throckmorton Devices > 8 Angela Reyes > 10 Intelligence Contacts > 18 Smear Campaigns > 12 Rampages > 5 Sabotages (in case an enemy Device gets the drop on you) > 5 Gang-a-Gleys > 14 Wheels of Fortune hmmmm. interesting. 70 cards, so about 1 in 9 is Angela or the Device. with those odds, you dont stand the best chance of drawing them together in the early game... and having the device right off seems to be the best as it is so slow. also, you just dont seem to have enough Rampages to guarantee you will be able to play them all the time... the more i look at this the more i am convinced it wont work out. the wheels will help you to try to find what you want, but one Dead, Dead, Dead on Angela and you are hosed completely... no counters for Dead, Dead, Dead exist in the game, either. and wheels will not help your ratio very much; you have to throw something away and the only really disposable things you have can be discarded for uniqueness (notable exception, Int Contacts and Smear Campaign, but you wanna hold onto these mostly). dont get me wrong. like all over specialized decks, it has its strong points and players who dont see it coming could easily fall for it. > Way over the typical 40-card deck, but between the Wheels and the fact that > Angela and the Device are unique, I never had a problem maintaining a good > hand. how many games have you tried this out? > The point of my deck was to have nothing to defend. but you do... the device _and_ angela. the only way you can call the device is angela and she is the weak link... Dead Angela = no Device. > Sure, I'd only get one influence a turn, but the Gang-a-Gleys > and Intelligence Contacts provide pretty solid protection for the device, > and between smear campaigns and rampages it isn't so hard to slow people > down. actually, i bet you didnt average 1 per turn. more like .7 or .5 per turn... esp if others saw what you were trying to do. Contacts only protect against the most obvious of attacks; Sabotage. but there are other common ploys (at tournament level, anyway) which you have less defense against. Michiko and Isil/Unified could both slow you down a great deal. > Of course, this deck is designed for a three or four player game; it > also relies on most player's natural instincts to attack SOMEONE if they > can, and since my deck provides no targets, they generally attack one > another, doing my work while I slowly build up my one per round. actually, i would think this would be a bigger boot stomping on the face of Al Amarja for eternity in a 2 player game where the other player has little defense against it; Rampages are maximized and less likely 1 enemy would have all the defenses needed. and i have to agree with your assessment of other players. perhaps the most important aspect of OnTE tournament play is being sneaky and weaseling your way to the top. :) > Obviously, the deck has flaws. I didn't win the tournament I played it in, > although I made the final round. what was your record? how were you beaten in the end? > I didn't win, but I had a great time, and that's enough for me. ahh... the pinnacle of achievment in game zen. :) > Not in my experience... in my typical games, the other two players were my > greatest weapons. If you don't present a target, they'll devote all their > resources and dirty tricks to hosing one another, until it's too late to > stop you. a heads up for people; if you really are playing to win, you gotta hold your punches until you need them and you cant forget about anybody. still, great deck, Kieth. i like it. do you own all these cards or did you borrow this one hit wonder? eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:22:46 +0200 From: Oliver Hertel Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Spike Y Jones wrote: > Just so you know, Keith Baker also plays Omni League, and he plays > a mean game of Omni, I'll tell you. I'd like to see a nice astral deck. Any Ideas? Or any other nice deck I could throw an eye on? Eh, no problem with 'misuse' of your decks, we do play about one or two times per year ... and for fun, not for killing anyone. ;) - -- Ciao, Oliver Hertel private homepage: http://www.tu-darmstadt.de/~st001183/ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:29:49 +0200 From: Oliver Hertel Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Keith Baker wrote: > [...] When I go > to a tournament, on the other hand, I have to admit that I'm usually playing > to win. Sure. :) We have no tournaments here, I only know me and three of my friends playing this game. 8-( Most of the people do Magic, StarWars and other crap. ;) > I can play for fun all I want at home. We only have home runs... > I also like to experiment > with unusual concepts; I wasn't sure that the characterless deck concept > would work, and I was curious to see how it would play out against what > other people came up with. For me, that deck IS a lot of fun. I think I will try a strange deck, too, next time... :) > > I'm for the "No Limits" rule, since it lets people come up with unusual > concepts. Okay, may be fine here. But when I see some Magic players with there 'killer' decks... argh. > I remember that we were trying to put together an deck that's only > method of generating influence was using Funkasites, but we couldn't come up > with enough of them in time. ;))) > And as a side note, I believe that my Throck > deck lost to a deck that had no repetitions at all, so multiples certainly > don't ensure victory... Okay, let's change my statement to: "No killer decks". ;) - -- Ciao, Oliver Hertel private homepage: http://www.tu-darmstadt.de/~st001183/ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:33:09 +0200 From: Oliver Hertel Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Eric Jome wrote: > well, you might _want_ a killer deck for any number of reasons. but > of course, you earn more respect winning with themes and omni than > you do on a gimmick. when there are prizes involved though, some > just cant settle for the mere fun of it. May be okay if you have there many different players, but we are four people, all the other guys are playing Battle Tech TCG etc. - -- Ciao, Oliver Hertel private homepage: http://www.tu-darmstadt.de/~st001183/ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:51:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Patrick Hogan Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device > every player who enters should make a sincere effort to win... that > is the ethical thing to do. For tournaments, sure. But I have a VtES deck designed to blow through my cards as fast as possible to enable me to withdraw ASAP ... which doesn't always work well, but can be fun to play. --Kevin (dromedan@umich.edu) [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:17:25 -0400 (EDT) From: David Freier Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Well sealed deck / omni is very enjoyable, but my cell has taken to using a booster draft system for playing. Just this weekend 5 of us sat down, each with three packs of unlimited and 3 packs of Shadows and in essence had a Rochester style draft game. Each player takes one card from his / her pack and passes it to the left. You then take one from the pack you just had passed to you and again pass left. At the end you are allowed to add in 6 in any combination of any of the basic resources (no unique resources allowed or The Terminal). We had an excellent game that lasted close to two hours. It would have been shorter, but I failed to realize I could have played my Pharoah as a blocker for Hank Henderson (was a 3 pull at the time) and cold have one the game in one more turn. Thats what happens when you get rusty from lack of playing :). If you really like to play this is one of the best ways and you get some new cards out of it. I even ended up with a Battle Bike since no one else could use it, so it got passed to me at the end of a round. David "Throckmorton" Freier [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:08:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Petri Wessman wrote: > Another thing is card balance. Sorry everyone, but IMHO VteS is a lot > more balanced with regards to card power (not to mention rarity). Try > to make a tournament-level deck in OntE without using any rares. The > same thing is quite possible in VteS. well, i am working on my Great OnTE Fix now, so at some subliminal level i will probably have to agree with you, but i too have played one heck of a lot of both games. and i would say that they are on equal footing in terms of power rares. both also display a healthy amount of power commons as well and i think this tends to muddy the waters when doing a comparison. Caine knows, i built some absolutely evil voting decks... ooo. a challenge! so perhaps i should do todays deck in all commons? Peter Hentges did this once in the distant past, but i will take a stab at this. so, the all common tournament deck for OnTE; See What Money Can Buy? (The All Common Deck) Pullers (8) 2 Bitter & Herb 2 Giovanni Mancini (Standard) 2 Claude-Lucien Rouvier 2 Eugene Krebbs Attackers (4) 1 Gayth Silver 1 Norton Rumple 1 Miriam Galaxy 1 Spackle Defenders (4) 1 Weegzon 1 Blush Quay 1 Ace J. Cirrus 1 Cooper Syme Specials (4) 1 Andrea Vernon 1 Simon Wallop 1 Isil Ziya 1 Josephina Shoukry Others (17) 3 Vibro Blaster 3 Weird Radiation 2 Dead, Dead, Dead 2 Blackmail 2 Shake 'Em Out 3 Underworld Contacts 1 Newtonian Slam 1 Unified Conspiracy Theory Resources (10) 6 Oppenheimer Contacts 4 Friends in Golden Barrio everything in this is common. like dirt. :) and it isnt too bad if i do say so... the vibroblaster and weirds can jack the already substantial scores on people like Cooper Syme or Gayth Silver. Norton is sporting 15/15 with one of each. :) and we have a couple of tricks in here. first, Shake Em Out will do nicely to remove bothersome Mrs. Brinker or the Coral Entity and will also allow you to crank for influence and pop your own entrepreneurs. upgrading on the the entres to Vibe wouldnt hurt too much and would let you shake while saving your own. Isil and Unified make an appearance and if you really wanted to use it often, drop the Slam and Andrea to add a second of Unified and Isil (who can also be an entre for the Underworld!). Josephina and Simon have great abilities, too. spackle is non-human (so is weegzon) for those pharaohs. > Whatever the reason is, the fact is that VteS has *no* cards banned in > tournament play for power reasons, and tournament rules specify no > card limits. actually, i thought there was a 6 or 4 card limit in the rules. and there are of course rules on crypt and deck size. i have never seen a banned list, but i can easily believe there isnt one; Jyhad relies more on combinations than one hit wonders. > In OntE I don't know... OntE has more power cards, with the additional > aggravation of having (almost) all of the powerful cards as > rares. My impression is that it is a lot easier to build degenerate > decks in OntE than in VteS... ummm... yeah. Blackmail is definitely a useless common. :) so are most of the other ones i gave above. and if you begin to include some of the "common" uncommons, OnTE decks can really take off. remember, you dont need Pharaohs to win and bringing them can put you into serious competition with others for Uniqueness. > Don't get me wrong, I also love OntE as a game. My point is that VteS > is a very different game, and comparing deck construction between it > and OntE is pretty pointless. but wasnt that what you were trying to do? :) eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:17:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Spike Y Jones wrote: > Just so you know, Keith Baker also plays Omni League, and he plays a mean > game of Omni, I'll tell you. well, Keith, lets see a posting of the contents of your Omni deck. :) eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:20:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Eric Jome Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Oliver Hertel wrote: > I'd like to see a nice astral deck. Any Ideas? you want Astral? well, i only have 1 astral deck laying around and it definitely is not friendly. so, you will have to wait until tomorrow for friendly astral... :) > Or any other nice deck I could throw an eye on? depends on what you mean by "nice" i guess. :) eric [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:05:51 -0700 From: tgeorge@techline.com (Troy George) Subject: [The Edge] Where to Start From?? Hello All, Before I ask my question< I'd just like to make a statement, then give some background. Statement: I love this newsletter/game hints/community help center. I just wish I had more people to play OntE with. Just me and 2 other guys in the area have cards (that I know of) and they don't want to play. Really Sucks!! Background: The group I RPG with has a tendancy to jump from system to system. We've gone through: AD&D, Palladium, Vampire, Shadowrun, Deadlands, Dragonlance 5th age, Star Wars, Gurps, and, of course, Over the Edge (I know I'm forgetting a few, but I'm fairly brain dead right now). We switch GM's every so often and play whatever system they want to do. After about a year, it's finally coming back to be my turn. Question: I'm going to try and start up OtE again. I've only GM'ed it once and I wasn't very good (lack of experience, I guess). I'm wondering if anyone has a good starting point adventure for new characters (they've all lost theirs after a year). I've done the ones in the back of the Main Sourcebook, but they didn't go over too well. I'd be really glad for any advice, hints, suggestions, and/or whatever!! Thanks you all and keep up a great Resource!!!! Troy George "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - "Groucho" Marx [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:14:21 -0500 From: Peter Jansen Subject: [The Edge] Decks, Devices, and the Problem with On the Edge For what it is worth: Thanks to all for bringing up this thread. The recent deck postings have brought what I see as the problem into sharp focus. Specifically, that the cards are cheaper than dirt. How many of Prem K. Sharma do I have socked away? I'm honestly not sure, but I do know that I have at least half a dozen of Veronica Sellers. Mr. Suitcase is the problem that Magic has always had, and only to a lesser extent still has, reduced only by the Standard tournament format. (For those who don't know, it is a constructed-deck format with available card sets limited to the most recent ones. But this list is about a different game.) As far as straight power decks vs. theme decks: the only power deck I have is my Omni deck - just ask Jeff Tidball. All the rest have a theme, reflected in their names: Big Brother (CPC/Law/Net/Neutralizer) Al Amarja Van Lines (Mover) Who's Driving this Spaceship Anyway? (Quisling/Alien/Android) Fast Food (Burger) Tales from the Boyz in the Dark Side of the 'Hood (Compton/Saou/Nekros/Hermetic, although this last will be replaced with Glorious Lord in its next incarnation) Oh, and of course, a Throckmorton deck - now my shame is public. :) Regards the Throckmorton deck: in my experience, a deck of only Throckmortons is (in the word of a Magic player describing the flaw of mono-red) fragile. From what I have seen, it needs to be Control with a Throckmorton specialization; although I admit I have not done an exhaustive analysis of the decks posted, they look at first blush to be rather nasty. Anyway, all these decks are fun to play, and effective, although to different degrees, depending on what my opponents are playing. This brings me to the point of player attitude. There are two aspects to this: the attitude of the play group you are in, and the attitude of the individual player you are facing at the moment. I have the advantage in the first aspect of playing mere minutes from the Atlas Games offices, so cards are readily available - now that I'm done buying Arcana (5+ displays) anyone want to trade for Janis? But everyone else has this access as well, and decks that comprise almost nothing but rares are to my mind, degenerate, and less than thrilling to play AND to play against. As far as the second, you should stop by The Source sometime and watch Nate Nolan and myself play a game and do our Itchy and Scratchy imitation. Also, meet the guy who built a deck with the specific purpose in mind of shutting one of my better decks down - problem is, I could still win. :) Nate and I do have fun, much the same way, I imagine, that heavyweight prizefighters have fun exchanging body blows. Playing just to tick someone off, though, to my mind is a bit immature, as is the player who HAS to win, and gets overly irritable when they do not My point is that the challenge of deckbuilding is a different one when you have the option of putting in three or four of Mars Royale or Michiko Ishii instead of one, maybe. How do you keep it interesting? Anyone? Just keep building new decks and tuning old ones? And the problem I currently have with Omni league is simply that no one will play me anymore. Finally, what I meant to say from the beginning of this diatribe, is that I think the unlimited availability of cards is hurting the game. Pete Jansen [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:39:40 -0700 From: Chris Johnson Subject: Re: [The Edge] Decks, Devices, and the Problem with On the Edge Peter Jansen wrote: > As far as straight power decks vs. theme decks: the only power deck I have > is my Omni deck - just ask Jeff Tidball. All the rest have a theme, > And the problem I currently have with Omni league is simply that no one > will play me anymore. From what you said, it sounds like it may be time to retire the old deck, and start a new Omni deck. > Finally, what I meant to say from the beginning of this diatribe, is that I > think the unlimited availability of cards is hurting the game. Ummm...not to put too fine a point on it, but, OTE is dead. Sure we all like it, and it *is* a good game, but it is, in fact, pushing up the daisies. I'll continue to play it, and collect it, but OTE's day has clearly passed. In a few years, Atlas may finally sell out of their stock on hand, but I doubt it. :/ In short, the unlimited availability of cards can't hurt OTE anymore, it can only affect individual play groups. If a play group is so hung up on munchkin decks that the availability of cheap cards detracts from play, perhaps one should reconsider playing with them. ;) Chris (who'd rather Atlas have a trickle of cashflow from OTE, as opposed to none at all, and who doesn't mind $20 boxes of a good game in the bargin) [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jun 98 22:48:11 -0800 From: "Alex" Subject: Re: [The Edge] Throckmorton Device Subject: [The Edge] Where to Start From??] Troy George wrote: > Question: I'm going to try and start up OtE again. I've only GM'ed it once > and I wasn't very good (lack of experience, I guess). I'm wondering if > anyone has a good starting point adventure for new characters (they've all > lost theirs after a year). I've done the ones in the back of the Main > Sourcebook, but they didn't go over too well. I'd be really glad for any > advice, hints, suggestions, and/or whatever!! a)Make them members of TV-Team trying to make a report about Al Amarja. This would get them instantly into the midst of things as various power groups would try to stop them from giving AA any publicity. Their cameras would be stolen, their gophers intimidated and the good-looking host could even get an invitation to Compton's. Imagine a hard-hitting reporter team gradually moving from their original objective of making a simple report for a travel-show to a group of burgers caught up in a quest to uncover the various power games on the island. b)Make them part of a group of people invited to Al Amarja for an inheritance. The idea is that someone the characters never heard of lived on AA and collected a large number of things that are less than normal. Before his death, he leafed through the phone books of several large cities and randomly chose five people to inherit his stuff. Needless to say, he bequeathed all of his actual money to some welfare fund. The characters first see each other on the flight from Italy to AA and can then proceed to find their way through The Terminal. As soon as they are through with this, though, you will need an incentive to make them stay on island - either make one of the objects really interesting (for all of the PCs) or steal all their money (They will hate you for this, but hey...). For ideas on the items, look up Steve Jackson's Warehouse 23 - either the book or the page on his web site. They have the most outrageous stuff there. (Of course the five people were not chosen randomly - each character was fated to go to AA and help in the GREAT QUEST or something. Just a little afterthought.) Just my two dinars. Flow [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:44:51 -0600 From: Keith Baker Subject: Re: [The Edge] Decks, Devices, and the Problem with On the Edge >How do you keep it interesting? Anyone? Just keep building new decks and >tuning old ones? As I noted before, what we've done is build about 16 different theme decks, all of which are roughly balanced to one another, which are more or less public cell property. Thus when anyone feels like a game, they can either pull a few decks at random or suggest a particular match-up to other prospective players. It keeps things balanced, there's enough different decks to keep things interested (and all of the decks have sideboards so players can do a few tweaks before playing), and the themes give it a reasonable amount of story flavor. >And the problem I currently have with Omni league is simply that no one >will play me anymore. Well, given the ease of access to cards, we've been switching to new omni decks practically every time we decide to play omni. We used to allow players to retire decks if they hit 70 or 50 cards, but these days, we tend to open new decks each cycle. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:12:23 -0400 From: "David Spitzley" Subject: [The Edge] My favorite deck concept As long as we're talking decks, I had a silly idea that I was only able to = exorcise by building it - Good Vibes: 8 or 9 Vibe Valiants, a similar = number of Tulpas, accompanied by numerous blockers to allow her/them to = survive. I believe I used Mutants for her support crew, but it's been a = while. One deck which actually worked was "Al Amarja Tours": the Government, the = Terminal, and several businesses (both cab companies and the Chateau) = joined up to boost tourism, which added plenty of Burgers. There's a lot = of influence floating around in the deck, if nothing else. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:53:26 -0400 (EDT) From: David Freier Subject: Re: [The Edge] My favorite deck concept One deck concept which I used, and still sorta have together was a deck called "Sunglasses". I went through and pulled out all the cards I could find that had a person or featured sunglasses in some way and built a deck using appropriate basic resources. I think I threw in a couple of Patrol Baboons for muscle, but the surprise was that the deck actually worked fairly well. David "Throckmorton" Freier [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #67 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org