From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #56 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Saturday, May 23 1998 Volume 01 : Number 056 Today's subjects from The Edge: Re: [The Edge] OtE articles (was: OnTE giveaway...) Re: [The Edge] CPC Handbook [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] Re: [The Edge] CPC Handbook [The Edge] Cloaks and Forgotten Lives Professionally reviewed ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:25:18 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [The Edge] OtE articles (was: OnTE giveaway...) >I'm looking for other OtE articles and reviews in magazines. Do you have (or know) information about magazine, article, author, etc, please mail me or this list! >Anna I saw something advertised in Valkyrie, but I haven't ever seen the magazine. Does anyone on the list know anything about it? David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:09:30 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [The Edge] CPC Handbook Keith Baker Wrote in response to John Nephew's book idea: >What would personally interest me (and may be what you intended between >plots and Allies and Enemies) would be a breakdown of forces that may be >manipulating the CPC, and to what end. Are the Vornites using it to track >psychic phenomena or to cover their own tracks (They certainly are in MY >campaign...)? Have the Neutralizers infiltrated the organization, or do they >just monitor its phone lines? > >As David was noting, I'm not sure I'd want something that just flat out said >"Yes, the Pharoahs are in control"-- especially in a book that has both >player and GM sections, since there will always be those players who will >read more than they should (or, as in my case, alternating GMs who take >turns running campaigns). But I always like having suggestions and story >hooks explored (...if the Vornites were in control, they might be trying to >do X...). I think there is a fundamental problem here between relativity and structure. I definitely like knowing the structure of secret societies and their plots, but on the other hand it is nice to have something that gives the GMs more options and that is not a major problem for players to look at. I have to place my vote with relativity if the book is aimed at both players and game masters. It is generally a bad idea to put "hot" information in player's hands, and it is annoying for them as well. There are other advantages to relativity, so I would choose that in this case. >Another possibility, since the players are "experienced investigators of the >supernatural" is that they are actually aware of these manipulators, or >actively working for them. Perhaps there are clear power blocs within the >CPC, and players must choose who they align with: the Vornites, Hermetics, >Earthlings, Nuetralizers, etc, each of which has their own agenda... sort of >like Secret Societies in Paranoia. Of course, this sort of political >infighting may not be the direction you want to go with the suppliment... >but it's probably what I'd do if I was running a campaign with it. If the above were true, I would run an CPC campaign with experienced OTE ex-GMs (who have the CPC book) where they think, "I am a member of the Pharaohs," and "I am a mover." Then, as the GM, I would create a whole new set of conspiracies, which are manipulating these. Since these are the "official" conspiracies of OTE, the players would be less likely to suspect that they are being manipulated by the real powers... Aside from the unlikely possibility that I have a group of experienced OTE GMs who have the book, I am not sure I like "exposed conspiracies" structure. Perhaps something where different departments of the CPC act somewhat independently, and it turns out they are each being controlled by different conspiracies... >On the other hand, maybe that should wait for the DBI Handbook... ;) Why am I missing that reference? What is DBI? I am surprised more people haven't responded to JN's post. Most gamers I know are opinionated about the sorts of books they like. And, hey, this gives us the unique opportunity to influence the books themselves. David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:20:35 -0700 From: Florian Merx Subject: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] > So my question for the list is...what cool topics would you want to see in > such a sourcebook? Cool topics? How about: - - How are the agents observed by their controllers? Do they use psy-devices/telepaths/whatever to ensure loyalty? - - Do the controls at the customs differ from normal airports? Do burgers have to endure any special, perhaps psychic, cleaning and quarantine procedures? - - what is the basic organisational structure of the CPC? Is there one High-Controller or do they report individually to Her Exaltedness? > > As it stands, I envision the book as having two parts, and being targetted at > both players and GMs. The first part would be the Agent's File, having > information open to any player in a CPC series. It includes: I heard from others on the list that making a two part book would notbe wise due to the fact that player's read their GM's books. I found that generally not that much of a problem. For one thing, my players have always been to lazy to do that. The other thing is, that if your GM says no to reading that you were not meant to know, than that's that. I guess it works. > * Technology - available fron CPC fringe scientists, or familiar from past > threats the CPC has faced Mh, does the CPC have something like Warehouse 23 with thousands upon thousands of little boxes? That would be interesting since it would need to be in the airport. And just imagine what the psychic fallout of all the fringe devices would be like. This must be at least one reason the airport is as strange as it is. Kinda like the books in the library of the Invisible University in Terry Pratchett's books... > * Field Guide to the Paranormal - a sort of dictionary of weird things, from > abductions to water power Oh yeah, I can hear them say:'No worries, old women, it's just a Class 4 Psychic Manifestation followed by D3 exothermic reaction. What? Oh, I just said, a ghost appeared and burned down your house...' > The Administrator's File is for the GM(s)...there may be more than one if > "troupe-style play" is employed. Troupe-style play? A CPC agent and his toadies? I must confess, I really can't see how this would work. > * Allies & Enemies -- Some info on other forces that may cooperate with or > hinder the CPC There were comments on the list saying that more comprehensive information about conspiracies would infringe on the GM's freedom. I don't agree with this. OTE presents itself mostly as a tub full of conspiracies without any structure. Although this offers a lot of freedom for ideas, this is also a problem as the lack of structure makes extensive preparation before a campaign starts necessary. Example: In MegaTraveller everyone knows what the general situation is like. All you need for an adventure is couple of characters and a floor plan, everything else is supplied by the background information. Therefore I would very much like to see extensive infromation about the who' who and the what's what of conspiracies in the CPC. And if there are any Pharaos (which I personally don't like) I'll simply replace them with sokm other group. Have Fun, Flo [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:06:27 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] >- what is the basic organisational structure of the CPC? Is there one >High-Controller or do they report individually to Her Exaltedness? Definitely. >I heard from others on the list that making a two part book would notbe >wise due to the fact that player's read their GM's books. I found that >generally not that much of a problem. For one thing, my players have >always been to lazy to do that. One problem (and the most likely problem, I think) is that someone who has played OTE before but is not playing it now will say, "Hey, Player book." Then they buy it, but having spent good money on it will want to read the whole thing. >The other thing is, that if your GM says >no to reading that you were not meant to know, than that's that. I guess >it works. Well, a player doesn't always have a GM, as I mentioned before. Also there is something alluring to the forbidden sections in books. As well as annoying. Even if you do abide by the rules by not looking at the section, you don't probably are not going to like it. And we probably want to create books that most players like... >> * Allies & Enemies -- Some info on other forces that may cooperate with or >> hinder the CPC > >There were comments on the list saying that more comprehensive >information about conspiracies would infringe on the GM's freedom. I >don't agree with this. Well, that isn't the only argument against comprehensive information. (although it is one. Although I don't find structure restrictive, I definitely know people who do. They like to be canonical...) There is also the argument that it makes the information in the players book very bad for players to look at. If you are going to put GM information in there, at least make it not-too-important GM information. General advice about how to run a CPC campaign probably isn't going to hurt a PC to read. David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:36:27 -0700 From: Alex Rodriguez Subject: Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] David Ebrey wrote: > Well, a player doesn't always have a GM, as I mentioned before. what if you printed the GM version from the back of the book, in reverse, with a distinct background or a border that is printed to the edge of the page so that players know that those pages are for GM purposes only? - -- - -Alex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:54:08 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] Alex wrote: >> Well, a player doesn't always have a GM, as I mentioned before. > >what if you printed the GM version from the back of the book, in >reverse, with a distinct background or a border that is printed to the >edge of the page so that players know that those pages are for GM >purposes only? I don't think the problem is that the players don't know what they are supposed to read; rather, it is that they don't have any GMs actively telling them "Don't read the last section of the book!" And if they do, they probably get annoyed by it. It is nice being able to say, "You can read the entire player's survival guide." Maybe I am overestimating this. However, at a recent meeting of our Science Fiction and RPG group here at the University of Chicago, someone mentioned that Deadlands split all their books into GM and PC sections. Someone responded "Oh yea, as if those actually work," and most people around him chimed in that they agreed that these don't work. I think us greedy Americans want our dollars worth... We also want to know what is going on (which is what is included in the GM section). Of course this only describes certains sorts of players. But, it is not like RPGs are cheap, especially now that Atlas Games is actually trying to make money with theirs (i.e., now that prices have risen), so ignoring half or a third of the book is probably like throwing 6-10 dollars away. David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:21:39 -0700 From: Alex Rodriguez Subject: Re: [Fwd: [The Edge] CPC Handbook] David Ebrey wrote: > I don't think the problem is that the players don't know what they are > supposed to read; rather, it is that they don't have any GMs actively > telling them "Don't read the last section of the book!" And if they do, > they probably get annoyed by it. It is nice being able to say, "You can > read the entire player's survival guide." > > Maybe I am overestimating this. However, at a recent meeting of our > Science Fiction and RPG group here at the University of Chicago, someone > mentioned that Deadlands split all their books into GM and PC sections. > Someone responded "Oh yea, as if those actually work," and most people > around him chimed in that they agreed that these don't work. I think us > greedy Americans want our dollars worth... We also want to know what is > going on (which is what is included in the GM section). Of course this > only describes certains sorts of players. But, it is not like RPGs are > cheap, especially now that Atlas Games is actually trying to make money > with theirs (i.e., now that prices have risen), so ignoring half or a third > of the book is probably like throwing 6-10 dollars away. true but at least it might throw in some guilt and trying to make the two sections distinct might help with the idea of it being two books in one and not a book you can only read part of. Also, i have to admit that i have flipped through books and not realized that i was reading the GM section either becuase i was checking the book out or some other reason. - -Alex ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:35:54 -0500 (CDT) From: dslinkard@MACALESTER.EDU Subject: Re: [The Edge] CPC Handbook On Sat, 9 May 1998, AtlasGames wrote: > The Administrator's File is for the GM(s)...there may be more than one if > "troupe-style play" is employed. Some sections I see it having include: Personally, I identify completely with players who are dying to read the rest of GM only books, and it drives me nuts that I can't show more of the OTE sourcebooks to my players. Generally, I find that players who think they know something put themselves in greater danger, and that most given plots can be easily rearranged and crisscrossed. For this reason, I'd recommend making a section that could be either GMs only or not, depending on the GM. Maybe give stats for CPC high mucky mucks perhaps referred to earlier in the book, and suggestions for *possible* conspiracies within the CPC. Personally I find that 'employed' PC campaigns (soldiers, agents, etc.) paradoxically produce more conspiracies, moral dilemmas, etc. for parties than those with 'free' characters, so I think it would be important to keep the characters guessing as to what the CPCs motives are. For this reason I like the multiple possibilities approach taken in many of the other books, where my players can read the book and still have to keep guessing what they're up against. > * Plots -- big plots, and smaller adventure seeds; maybe even an introductory > CPC scenario. Personally, I'd like maybe one or two new *major* conspiracies. Not because the existing ones aren't dangerous enough, but just to add a new dimension to the particular environment CPC would have. Maybe all the vampires are networking worldwide or something... > * fringe science toys This section would be really fun. I love getting ideas for props off the net, and the ones in sourcebooks are generally better. Maybe some suggested fringe powers too, and I haven't heard anyone mention *magic*! If characters are going to be chasing after mystic sh*t types all day, it would at least be nice to give GMs a little better idea what they're up against... Couple of sample spiritually inclined types would be fun. Then there's the whole issue of the 'chesspieces' that are supposed to be waiting upstairs. I found that idea to be really interesting. Maybe stats on one of those? [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:30:16 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: [The Edge] Cloaks and Forgotten Lives Professionally reviewed Cloaks and Forgotten Lives were reviewed by someone who actually gets paid to write stuff on the web (Ken Hite). You can find the review in his "Out of the Box" article (http://mania.com/columns/box/box052298.html) at Mania Magazine (http://mania.com/mania). David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #56 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org