From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #51 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Monday, April 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 051 Today's subjects from The Edge: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved [The Edge] gobs of cash Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved [The Edge] Horrors Count stats, anyone? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:04:15 -0500 From: "Paul J. Lareau" Subject: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved I'll speak as a "kindred spirit" to your current players. I don't actually play very much because I'm generally a non-violent person who tends to play characters who would rather make friends with the enemy than kill them. And since I'm a stickler for "motivation", I try to react the way my character would logically react. I'm also a murder mystery fan who tends to try to plan and plot my way out of things, but I'm seldom the one who will get the group or story actually moving. When we play as a family, there are 3 of us like that ... drives my son-in-law (the GM) nuts! "Stop talking and DO something!" ;=) Every group needs an "action leader" ... a PC who tends to initiate actions. S/he can be a belligerant warrior, a brash kid, or a damned fool...it doesn't matter. Whatever the player is, it will force the others to follow (if playing as a group). What the GM can do is, first of all, force the players to get detailed in their PC descriptions as to motivations and personalities. Edge has one of the better "character description" methods for this. Then, "pick on" individual players, aiming the clues and plot twists specifically at that character's strength or weakness, and don't be afraid to say (either yourself or as an NPC) "Jeez, Supercrunch, are you gonna let that sob get away with that? Or aren't you the kind of person we thought you were?" The problem is that (1) many players really aren't very observant, and what you think is a great, obvious clue is not at all obvious to someone else; (2) many players are cautious ... they want to think it out, discuss it, plan the best way to go about it; and (3) most players fear for the safety of their PC's. With (1), an NPC may have to pull someone aside and plant the seed for the appropriate response if nobody seems to get the clue. (One of the best GM's I've played under for doing that is Doc Cross.) With (2), forcing real time limits on people ... have a watch with you, and give them 30 seconds to respond with an action or something bad happens. After all, that thug isn't gonna wait for a committee decision before he pounds on someone! And (3), get them comfortable with the powers of their characters early on ... by forcing them into action early on, and making it obvious from the successful result that their characters have the power to win, they will get enough confidence to let their characters do what perhaps they themselves would not do! A help for the GM is to jot down two or three powers that each player has (whether they asked for them or not) that you will seldom let fail, at least at first (you may have to later on, if they get complacent). By the way, that's also true of clues. I know that I'm often at a loss for ideas what to do next. When I come up with an idea, obviously not one that the GM had in mind, and it leads nowhere, or prompts a non-sequitur response, I am back feeling like I'm trying to secondguess the GM as to what s/he wants. Hope that helps. I'm anything but an expert, but really do understand where your players are likely coming from. - -- Paul J. Lareau - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [POST] 135 E. Viking Dr. #301, Little Canada MN 55117 USA [HOME PAGE] http://www.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 09:53:12 -0600 From: "Carl L. Congdon" Subject: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Jeff Boes wrote: > Does anyone have any thoughts on how to make the experience *personal* so they > have a motivation? I was considering having them attacked by zeroes and beaten > senseless, or kidnapped by Kergillians and operated on, or some other near-death > experience. That would do it. Make it personal, and they will get involved. Keep in mind that, due to the free-flowing nature of the game, it is actually possible to barrage the players with all of these sights and have them lie back and play tourist. It's the only game so far that I've seen where that action is conceivable. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:27:01 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved >And since I'm a stickler for "motivation", I try to >react the way my character would logically react. I found that being a stickler for motivation too often got in the way of having fun. The GM could have the best adventure ever made laid out, and then my character wouldn't follow it because it wasn't something he would do. The solution I found is to ask the gm before the series starts if this character is going to be motivated to get into the action. If not, then you need to change the character. You really shouldn't expect the GM to do all the work. e.g., It is possible to play a very "sensible" character who thinks that anyone who believes in conspiracies is a complete lunitic. This might work fine, but you better ask the gm first if that is going to cause troubles. I'm also a murder >mystery fan who tends to try to plan and plot my way out of things, but >I'm seldom the one who will get the group or story actually moving. >When we play as a family, there are 3 of us like that ... drives my >son-in-law (the GM) nuts! "Stop talking and DO something!" ;=) I don't mind the characters talking since it implies that they see that there is some problem. Most of my game sessions are the players talking. The trick is to occasionally give an ultimatium (e.g., if we don't get over there in 30 minutes they will kill him). I think Jeff's problem was that the characters didn't even acknowledge the existence of problems. David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:50:21 EDT From: AtlasGames Subject: [The Edge] gobs of cash In a message dated 4/24/98 11:16:12 PM, you wrote: >The only way we've ever given them away before has been as tournament prizes >for the big tournament, say, at GenCon. I don't think I can sell them, unless >John gives the go-ahead. We do have a general interest in gobs of cash, >anyway.... > >John? Yeah, um, I dunno. I don't know what a fair price would be. And, of course, I have a certain sentimental attachment and pack-rat hoarding instinct about them. Maybe we could hold an auction, and use the proceeds to pay down the OnTE printing bills that are not yet paid off or something...? - -jn [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:42:46 -0500 From: "Paul J. Lareau" Subject: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved David Ebrey wrote: > >And since I'm a stickler for "motivation", I try to > >react the way my character would logically react. > > I found that being a stickler for motivation too often got in the way of > having fun. The GM could have the best adventure ever made laid out, and > then my character wouldn't follow it because it wasn't something he would > do. The solution I found is to ask the gm before the series starts if this > character is going to be motivated to get into the action. If not, then > you need to change the character. You really shouldn't expect the GM to do > all the work. I think it goes without saying that the GM has to approve all characters, and that certain types of characters don't fit into every game. But I disagree with your statement that being a stickler for motivation gets in the way of having fun. In fact, I tend to believe that NOT being a stickler for motivation can get in the way of having fun. To my mind, most of what makes an RPG different from your run-of-the-mill board game is that you have the added fun of creating a character, then stepping in their shoes to view a world very differently than you as a person would do. > I think Jeff's problem was that the characters didn't even acknowledge the > existence of problems. One way to keep out of the "tourist" or "explorer" mode (when you don't want to be in them) is to make a lot of details of the world already known to the players. Lots of maps, quick explanations, books, and websites around, so that the players already know a lot about the place. That way, they can concentrate on the goal that has been set, rather than wandering down interesting paths. By the way, if you're GM in a world that's already pretty well set up, and have the luxury of a couple of days between receiving characters and starting the game, setting up individual, multiple goals (probably even conflicting ones) for the players, even if they're working in a group, can make them think independently, rather than rely on the one good fighter, the one scheming planner, or the one hot mage. Lots of different goals, both individual and group goals, help the players, too, by suggesting courses of action. There is nothing more frustrating in an RPG or PBEM than suddenly finding 5 players sitting around honestly without a clue what to try next, and a GM equally frustrated because the obvious path to take is all but staring them in the face! And not only does a GM have to have the ability to tailor PC's for his/her adventure, s/he might have to tailor the adventure for the PC's who are playing. It may be that a particular group will do better at a "treasure hunt" rather than an "invasion", a couple of friendly, though strange, folks with invaluable information might keep the "kill first & ask questions later" folks from dominating a game. Strict realtime time limits, as David said, can stir up spontaneous thinking. A really good GM has to be able to think on her/his feet, and have a hip pocket full of creative alternatives. - -- Paul J. Lareau - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [POST] 135 E. Viking Dr. #301, Little Canada MN 55117 USA [HOME PAGE] http://www.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:22:11 -0600 From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Paul wrote: >having fun. In fact, I tend to believe that NOT being a stickler for >motivation can get in the way of having fun. To my mind, most of what makes an >RPG different from your run-of-the-mill board game is that you have the added >fun of creating a character, then stepping in their shoes to view a world very >differently than you as a person would do. I am all for staying in character. My problem is that too many players think that they have a right to make whatever sort of character they want ("see look, it says character creation, so this is legal!") and then are disappointed when the GM can't create a plot that accomidates all of the characters. Similar to characters in novels, player-characters have to be interested in the right stuff in order to participate. My complaint is with equating "stickler for motivation" with "stickler for personality." I certainly have seen a wide range of personalities interested in similar goals. Try to work with your GM not against your GM. I, too, think that roleplaying games are very different from traditional board or card games. David [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:34:12 -0700 From: tgeorge@techline.com (Troy George) Subject: Re: [The Edge] H elp getting players involved Does anyone have any thoughts on how to make the experience *personal* so they >have a motivation? I was considering having them attacked by zeroes and beaten >senseless, or kidnapped by Kergillians and operated on, or some other near-death >experience. Every now and then I ask my players to give me some general ideas of what they want to do. Dungeon crawl, political stuff, fringe/hermetic/astral etc. I'm also belssed with a VERY bright, intelligent, and highly educated group of players. Make it hard on me sometimes to keep up with them. Hopefully this will give you some help. Have a good one Troy "The Germans are a cruel people, Baldrick. Their operas last for three days and there is no word in their language for fluffy" - Blackadder. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:55:08 -0600 From: "Carl L. Congdon" Subject: [The Edge] Horrors Count stats, anyone? I'm including the Plaza of Painted Rocks in my campaign. Does anyone have any stats for Horrors Count, as I could not imagine doing the Plaza without him? [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #51 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org