From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #34 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Sunday, March 15 1998 Volume 01 : Number 034 Today's subjects from The Edge: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies [The Edge] Re: The Edge Digested V1 #33 Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies [The Edge] John's Various Replies Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: Spike Y Jones Subject: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Adam T. Ness wrote: > In any case, Games are realy just a small sub-section of the Book > Publishing market. The only way that WotC/TSR could even come close to a > monopoly would be if they bought out DelRey, Bantam, Houghton Miffin and a > bunch of other large book publishers. The entire point is moot. And Book Publishing is really only a small sub-section of publishing in general (which includes newspapers, magazines, TV Guide, etc.), so to have a monopoly on the game market one would also have to control a significant number of medical journals, map-making companies, printers of cereal boxes... [O] [O] [O] Spike Y Jones [O]Spike[O] Freelance writer, editor, proofreader, and ex-bingo-caller [O] [O] [O] spikeyj@access.digex.net http://www.io.com/~spikeyj/ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:21:42 -0700 From: Trevor Stone Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Spike Y Jones said: >On Sat, 14 Mar 1998, Adam T. Ness wrote: > >> In any case, Games are realy just a small sub-section of the Book >> Publishing market. The only way that WotC/TSR could even come close to a >> monopoly would be if they bought out DelRey, Bantam, Houghton Miffin and a >> bunch of other large book publishers. The entire point is moot. > >And Book Publishing is really only a small sub-section of publishing in >general (which includes newspapers, magazines, TV Guide, etc.), so to have a >monopoly on the game market one would also have to control a significant >number of medical journals, map-making companies, printers of cereal boxes... > And publishing is just a subset of thought output, so they'd have to have control of everyone's minds. And that's the job of the Gladsteins, not WotC. =-=-=-= Trevor Stone =-=-= aka Flwyd =-=-= tstone @ robin . ml . org =-=-=-= Eclectic philosopher, New Vista computer admin, gamer, witster, esotericist http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Thou bootless dismal-dreaming waterfly! The box said "Requires Windows '95 or better." So I loaded Win 3.1. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:18:15 EST From: DocCross Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies In a message dated 98-03-14 22:23:08 EST, you write: << And publishing is just a subset of thought output, so they'd have to have control of everyone's minds. And that's the job of the Gladsteins, not WotC. >> Hey hey hey!!!! Watch that Control Freak kinda talk, bucko:) We're gonna be keeping an eye on you:) Doc [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:42:37 -0500 From: "Scott and Michelle McDaniel" Subject: [The Edge] Re: The Edge Digested V1 #33 > I'm musing on how I'm going to do my first OtE campaign at the moment and > I'm thinking of using music as theme tunes for characters, areas and > particular stories. > At the moment I've got, > Sympathy for the Devil for Mr Compton > Take a walk on side for the Adventure Morphia Soup from Forgotton Lives > Most of the Dead Can Dance CD Into the Labyrinth just because it sounds > like the Edge should. > Any other bright ideas guy and gals? > > Mark Wilkin I've used King Crimson as background music before. It's often dissonant, and just plain weird. It's also largely instrumental, even with those songs that have lyrics. Once, for a trip to Sad Mary's, I used a heavy metal version of --- I've blanked --- by Savatage. Damn. It's one of those Wagnerian pieces. No, not the Ride of the Valkyries. Anyway, the players had to more or less shout over the music while they were near the stage... Hall of the Mountain King. That's it. Here's another idea. Pick up some Arabic music. I recommend Hossam Ramzy (I play one of the drums he plays). Passion Sources, compiled by Peter Gabriel, is another one for Mediterranean music. It can give you a good atmosphere for the music that characters might actually run into in some of their more "ethnic" locales. On another note. Has anyone read Umberto Eco? I'm reading one of his books now, and its mood could fit the Edge quite well in some ways. The Island of the Day before is the book. If there's interest, I'll tell more about it when I get further along. Scott McD. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:13:58 +0000 From: Perry Lyons Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies DocCross wrote: > > << And publishing is just a subset of thought output, so they'd have to have > control of everyone's minds. And that's the job of the Gladsteins, not WotC. > >> > > Hey hey hey!!!! Watch that Control Freak kinda talk, bucko:) We're gonna be > keeping an eye on you:) > > Doc No, that's monique's job, silly.And the throckmorton device's, and the idea's, and just about every two bit control faction with an agenda to push. And how do you know that WotC isn't just a front for the Gladsteins, who are trying to use the attention that they're getting to stop the distribution of the deproggraming manual, cleverly disquised as a simple, yet entertaining RPG, and designed to open people's eyes to their evil schemes. You don't do you:> Perry [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:19:17 EST From: DocCross Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies In a message dated 98-03-15 00:21:02 EST, you write: << No, that's monique's job, silly.And the throckmorton device's, and the idea's, and just about every two bit control faction with an agenda to push. And how do you know that WotC isn't just a front for the Gladsteins, who are trying to use the attention that they're getting to stop the distribution of the deproggraming manual, cleverly disquised as a simple, yet entertaining RPG, and designed to open people's eyes to their evil schemes. You don't do you:> >> I'm a Cut Up, so keeping an eye on the Control Freaks is my job:) [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 05:06:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Adam T. Ness" Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, DocCross wrote: > I'm a Cut Up, so keeping an eye on the Control Freaks is my job:) That's right baby! Blasting holes through your mindset since god knows how long ago! Cut-Ups are quite easily my favorite group in The Edge. Who else can change reality five times before breakfast and not bat an eyelash! Doc, when are you going to dump that hopper of Toon sourcebooks into the machine? I can't wait to see the face my players when an anvil first falls on an undercover Gladstein, making his head grow a huge lump. "Fear is a fire to temper courage and resolve. Use it so." - -- O'olish Amaneh from Terry Brooks, _Running with the Demon_ - -------- ICQ #3665941 [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:27:56 +0000 From: Perry Lyons Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies DocCross wrote: > I'm a Cut Up, so keeping an eye on the Control Freaks is my job:) It's a lost cause. It's human nature to gravitate twards control addiction, and control addicts. It's what keeps societies together and functional. Unless the cut ups device can COMPLETELY redifine human nature, inculding our gross materialisim, and our tendancy to gravitate twards figures in power, the Cut up's efforts are pointless. It's like heads of the hydra. Convert or deal with one addict, and 2 more will take their place. Sad really... Perry [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:31:39 EST From: DocCross Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies In a message dated 98-03-15 11:36:09 EST, you write: << It's a lost cause. It's human nature to gravitate twards control addiction, and control addicts. It's what keeps societies together and functional. Unless the cut ups device can COMPLETELY redifine human nature, inculding our gross materialisim, and our tendancy to gravitate twards figures in power, the Cut up's efforts are pointless. It's like heads of the hydra. Convert or deal with one addict, and 2 more will take their place. Sad really... >> Obviously, you are far to weighted down by the burdens of logic and reality. Come join the Cut Ups! We can help you. Really:) [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 13:29:55 EST From: DocCross Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies In a message dated 98-03-15 08:06:46 EST, you write: << Doc, when are you going to dump that hopper of Toon sourcebooks into the machine? >> Who says I didn't already do it?:) Heeheehee [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:10:51 PST From: "Aaron Brown" Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries The truth is that it does not matter what side you choose because we of the Kergillians are the true power because once you are one of us you leave all the other groups. Just thought I would let you know that after a small crash in California, we are expanding across the United States. We are currently set up in Pine Flat wich is a small town in the mountains wich was completely taken over. If anyone wants to look for it its right near hot springs. Just letting you in on a taste of the new book I am working on for the Kergillians. Wich will be posted on the internet when I finish in 40 years. I would like to know if anyone has made any new kergillian devices or gmc's that they would like to contribute to my book. Thank you any one for your support. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:12:20 PST From: "Aaron Brown" Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries The truth is that it does not matter what side you choose because we of the Kergillians are the true power because once you are one of us you leave all the other groups. Just thought I would let you know that after a small crash in California, we are expanding across the United States. We are currently set up in Pine Flat wich is a small town in the mountains wich was completely taken over. If anyone wants to look for it its right near hot springs. Just letting you in on a taste of the new book I am working on for the Kergillians. Wich will be posted on the internet when I finish in 40 years. I would like to know if anyone has made any new kergillian devices or gmc's that they would like to contribute to my book. Thank you any one for your support. Sincerely, Aaron Brown First in command of the Kergillian Invasion of Porterville, California Leading a kergillian front known as the Edge Riders (Conspiracy Cell) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:16:33 +0000 From: Perry Lyons Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies DocCross wrote: > Obviously, you are far to weighted down by the burdens of logic and reality. > Come join the Cut Ups! We can help you. Really:) Help me what? If it's chaos dogma, or control dogma, it's still dogma, it's still a path to be followed. with stipulations, and rules. you can get repremanded just as easily as we can. Even in attempting to further the cause of chaos, you're helping control. It's part of your nature, and no matter how hard you try to deny it, you will eventually embrace it. Join us and repent your folly, be on the winning team. And don't listen to those foolish kergellians. they're just a bunch of alien arthopods, what the heck do they know? Perry [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:25:52 +0000 From: Perry Lyons Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries Aaron Brown wrote: > > The truth is that it does not matter what side you choose because we of > the Kergillians are the true power because once you are one of us you > leave all the other groups. Making you control addicts, if just weird alien crab control addicts. Which means that tendancies twards control addiction are not just a human trait. Look at yourself, look at pack animals, look at any animal with a hierachy. Control addiction is everywhere. You cannot fight it. you cannot stop it. You will only embrace it, and accept it. We are control. We are what you want, you just don't realize it yet. The voice of reason, Perry Lyons [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:30:21 -0800 (PST) From: "Adam T. Ness" Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies > Help me what? If it's chaos dogma, or control dogma, it's still dogma, > it's still a path to be followed. with stipulations, and rules. you can > get repremanded just as easily as we can. Even in attempting to further > the cause of chaos, you're helping control. It's part of your nature, > and no matter how hard you try to deny it, you will eventually embrace > it. Join us and repent your folly, be on the winning team. And don't > listen to those foolish kergellians. they're just a bunch of alien > arthopods, what the heck do they know? It's not dogma, it's an ongoing conversation of fluctuation and change. Nothing is so static as you are led to believe. The idea that you believe in this human nature is only a further example of your submission to chaos. Free you mind, and the rest will follow. Don't pay attention to these paltry physical suggestions made by this plane's scientists. The only law is chaos, which is not a law at all, but a void of them. Pancakes fall from the trees, making rabbits eat dogs. Windows in the mist don't juggle phones. A stairway to nowhere in a box of jello is brown. "Fear is a fire to temper courage and resolve. Use it so." - -- O'olish Amaneh from Terry Brooks, _Running with the Demon_ - -------- ICQ #3665941 [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:32:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Adam T. Ness" Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness and cut up rivalries > The voice of reason, Perry Lyons The voice of random. "Fear is a fire to temper courage and resolve. Use it so." - -- O'olish Amaneh from Terry Brooks, _Running with the Demon_ - -------- ICQ #3665941 [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 19:04:19 +0000 From: Perry Lyons Subject: Re: [The Edge] Control freakyness WAS: off topic monoplies Adam T. Ness wrote: > It's not dogma, it's an ongoing conversation of fluctuation and > change. Nothing is so static as you are led to believe. The idea that > you believe in this human nature is only a further example of your > submission to chaos. Free you mind, and the rest will follow. Don't pay > attention to these paltry physical suggestions made by this plane's > scientists. The only law is chaos, which is not a law at all, but a void > of them. Pancakes fall from the trees, making rabbits eat dogs. Windows > in the mist don't juggle phones. A stairway to nowhere in a box of jello > is brown. Submitting means that i would be controlled, and control by anything, even chaos, is control all the same. In defeat, i am victorious and all that rot. And it's not just human nature. It's animal nature, and Kergelian nature, and pretty much everything. Perry lyons [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 20:22:55 EST From: AtlasGames Subject: [The Edge] John's Various Replies First off, to mail order anything from Atlas Games (Forgotten Lives, Cloaks, WTCL, Ars Magica books, whatever), send us a check or money order including a flat $4 for shipping & handling. We'll make sure you get what you want. Overseas folks need to pay more for shipping (we can probably figure out what shipping will cost if you e-mail us first, since it varies a lot depending on what kind of delivery and where to). >From: Michael Bowman >I picked up my copy of Forgotten Lives up in Mission BC at Mission Games >because no one here in Portland had a copy and two stores couldn't get it >for me. I've heard good things about Mission Games. They seem to be in the select company of highly clueful retailers. Patronize such establishments fervently! :) >However, it's not only Atlas Games titles I've had problems with: the >last Feng Shui supplement before Daedalus went under, new Conspiracy X >books, Unspeakable Oath. These are the ones that come to mind. Sigh. Yup, the problems seem to be widespread. Part of it is just that retailers and distributors (and manufacturers too) are straining under the load of past mistakes. Like CCGs. It limits how much they can afford to carry, which means that if two people order a book in the same week, only one might get it. *** About WotC -- I really don't put a lot of blame on their shoulders. There are big, earth-shaking changes that have been going on in the game industry over several years. Sooner or later the market will right itself. It may come through consolidation of distributors, more retailers going out of business, more manufacturers going out of business, new competition in all of the above categories...and even new ways of doing business. For example, Steve Jackson is selling the GURPS Russia book *only* by mail order. It may be that for some products, they are only viable by cutting out the middlemen entirely. Hero Games has been doing books on diskette -- making *much* smaller production runs economical than is the case with books. The challenge, of course, is navigating the changes and coming out stronger at the end of it all. (FWIW, I'm confident Atlas will be one of the survivors, after all the storms we've made it through so far!) >From: David Ebrey >On a semi-related note, I think it is great how you Atlas Games people have >been putting articles in Shadis; not only does it make the already great >deal even more worth my money, it seems like a nice way to spread the word >(works better than an ad, IMO). On the same note, I hope you can continue >to afford to put ads in Shadis. Meanwhile, I will try to get my remaining >two players to buy the Player's Survival Guide :) Well, I like to do a little freelancing on the side, whether or not the articles are for OTE. :) I was very happy with how "Nekromancy" came out. Meanwhile, everyone with writing ambitions should think about doing OTE articles and sending them around to the magazines. About ads -- for the most part we've arranged ads in trade (e.g., we give them books that they use for their subscription promotions). We try to get promotional mileage as economically as possible. >From: "Adam T. Ness" > In any case, Games are realy just a small sub-section of the Book >Publishing market. The only way that WotC/TSR could even come close to a >monopoly would be if they bought out DelRey, Bantam, Houghton Miffin and a >bunch of other large book publishers. The entire point is moot. If not books, then games and toys in general -- Hasbro, Milton Bradley, Parker Bros., Mattel, yadda yadda. - -jn [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:09:49 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Kinney Subject: Re: [The Edge] Completely Off-Topic Monopolies On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Adam T. Ness wrote: > an eyelash! Doc, when are you going to dump that hopper of Toon > sourcebooks into the machine? I can't wait to see the face my players > Just Toon? Hmm... also add the Principia Discordia, a bunch of SubGenius material... a copy of _Immoral Tales_ for flavor... the lyric booklet from the "Hell's Ditch" CD... and just to be sure, _The Art of War_. Process *that*... Actually, one truly odd thing... I was running a Dr. Who game once, where the Doctor wound up in Al Amarja, trying to retrieve the Ancient Law of Gallifrey, which had been taken there by a certain badguy. The Doctor's player came up with the idea of running this time-altering book (time is said to go backwards around it) through the machine. *This* scares me... (If you don't recognize the Ancient Law of Gallifrey, it's from the Tom Baker episode "Shada.") alberich@iglou.com | Mark Kinney | http://www.iglou.com/nations "I think I'm in just about every kind of trouble there is." -- Lyta Alexander, "Babylon 5: Divided Loyalties" [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #34 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org