From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #26 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Tuesday, February 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 026 Today's subjects from The Edge: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question [The Edge] Active? I hope so... [The Edge] Non-dice task-res. [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question RE: [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? Re: [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 12:31:47 -0800 From: "Rev. Boblight" Subject: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question I've tried this question on the old OnTE list before with no result (or none I can remember), so I'll try again. Cheap Baboon Trick reads, in part: "Play when one of your Chaos or Dog-Face characters is attacked. You select a new target for attack, and both original attacker and your character Gang Up on this new target..." Must the Chaos or Dog-Face character be active in order for this Whammy to be played? The card doesn't specify, leaving an ambiguous situation which the control addict inside me can't abide. We've been playing that the character needn't be active, using the rules-rationale that the card text doesn't read "ACTIVE Chaos or Dog-Face characters" and the common-sense rationale that the Whammy is a form of defense and a cranked character may defend itself. What are your thoughts? - - Rob Lightner [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:55:08 -0500 (EST) From: Joshua Kronengold Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question blight@u.washington.edu writes: >Must the Chaos or Dog-Face character be active in order for this Whammy >to be played? The card doesn't specify, leaving an ambiguous situation >which the control addict inside me can't abide. > It's an inherently ambiguous situation, and one which, as far as I know, has never been resolved. I tend to play it as not requiring that the chracter be "Active", for the reasons you list (and because in any case, it's a defensive card, not an offensive one), while others tend to play that, since the rules for "attacking" state that the character must be active, that CBT needs an active chaos or dogface character in order to be useful. In general, if I can get my opponents to agree that my wording is correct when I'm playing a chaos deck, I'll use it. Likewise, when playing against an obnoxious chaos deck, I may argue the opposite (it helps that I don't know which is the truth, so as far as I'm concerned, they are both variations, and the correct thing to do when someone tries to CBT an inactive character is to end the game immediately and have a nice cup of tea) in order to have my opponent be at least a little vulnerable. - -- mneme@dorsai.org Joshua Kronengold |\ _,,,--,,_ ,) - ---^---- "What part of 'Pthhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr' /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;' /\\ didn't you understand?" -- Me |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\ - -/-\\\-- AKA mneme at mcny.com '---''(_/--' (_/-' [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:03:03 -0600 (CST) From: Clay Colwell Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Rev. Boblight wrote: > I've tried this question on the old OnTE list before with no result (or > none I can remember), so I'll try again. Cheap Baboon Trick reads, in > part: > > "Play when one of your Chaos or Dog-Face characters is attacked. You > select a new target for attack, and both original attacker and your > character Gang Up on this new target..." > > Must the Chaos or Dog-Face character be active in order for this Whammy > to be played? The card doesn't specify, leaving an ambiguous situation > which the control addict inside me can't abide. My thoughts: the Whammy gives specific instructions as to when it can be played ("when a...character is attacked"). It seems clear to me that the defender's active status is immaterial. That the attack was made at all should be sufficient to allow CBT to be played. ****** Clay Colwell (aka StealthSmurf) ********** eris@bga.com ****** * "In the future, we will recognize software crashes as technologically * * mandated ergonomic rest breaks - and we will pay extra for them." * * -- Crazy Uncle Joe Hannibal * [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:52:28 -0800 (PST) From: Yanni Cooper Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question - ---"Rev. Boblight" wrote: "Play when one of your Chaos or Dog-Face characters is attacked. You select a new target for attack, and both original attacker and your character Gang Up on this new target..." [and some other stuff I snipped] I don't think the defender has to be active. This allows a REALLY cheap trick: 1)Send your patrol baboon over to attack some weak character. 2)Have your other patrol baboon attack the crancked one, then CBT it so they both attack. With a little luck they can take down Kofi with Weird Radiation, or pretty much ANY character that can be attacked... - -Yanni Cooper _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:53:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Lotta L. Casteen" Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question I'm sorry to make this message in such an unrelated thread, but I'm trying to figure out how to subscribe to both this list and the over the edge list on my new email address. Please send ideas, etc... to lars@comet.net. Thanks. Also, I'm wondering how to remove this email address from the list, so that I can read it in peace and without bothering the new owner of this adress. Thanks for all of your help. - -- [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: 9 Feb 98 22:38:24 -0800 From: "cine" Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question well, personally, I like the idea of the baboon feinging dead in order to trick someone into attacking and then leaping into action. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:02:36 -0500 (EST) From: Tammy Tayman Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Not being a rules guru, I still figured I'd respond. Yes, I agree with your interpretation. I don't think I've ever played in a game where someone has used that card, so I can only say that is would I probably would do. I also don't have my rules Bible with me to double check. T1 On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Rev. Boblight wrote: > I've tried this question on the old OnTE list before with no result (or > none I can remember), so I'll try again. Cheap Baboon Trick reads, in > part: > > "Play when one of your Chaos or Dog-Face characters is attacked. You > select a new target for attack, and both original attacker and your > character Gang Up on this new target..." > > Must the Chaos or Dog-Face character be active in order for this Whammy > to be played? The card doesn't specify, leaving an ambiguous situation > which the control addict inside me can't abide. > > We've been playing that the character needn't be active, using the > rules-rationale that the card text doesn't read "ACTIVE Chaos or > Dog-Face characters" and the common-sense rationale that the Whammy is a > form of defense and a cranked character may defend itself. > > What are your thoughts? > > - Rob Lightner > [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:06:21 -0500 (EST) From: Tammy Tayman Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Why do you think they called it CHEAP? T1 On 9 Feb 1998, cine wrote: > well, personally, I like the idea of the baboon feinging dead in order to > trick someone into attacking and then leaping into action. > > > > [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: 10 Feb 98 07:14 GMT From: FRANK M ADAMS Subject: [The Edge] Active? I hope so... I hope it still is, I just subscribed to it a couple days ago. Although I must say I have been surprised by the lack of activity. I guess I should add something to hopefully get things going. I just started playing On the Edge (though I've been a big Over the Edge fan for years) and I was wondering if there was anyone who played either game in the Chicago area. Also, if you could only buy one Over the Edge supplement what would it be and why? Lastly, will Atlas stuff (On/ver the Edge) have a presence at Winter Fantasy '98 here in Chicago? Frank frank.m.adams@slchicago.infonet.com [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:13:46 +0100 From: "Jesper Carlsson" Subject: [The Edge] Non-dice task-res. My intentions are to create a non-dice task-resolution system for Over the Edge. The most time I will use the dice task-resolution, so the systems have to be quite even in chances. I thought the first thing to do was to take a look at the dice system. Below you have a diagram of percent chances to succeed a task in Over the Edge. I’ve calculated the chances for rolls against the fixed _Difficulty Factor_ and not for _Dice to Roll_. (However, I will talk (write) about the _Dice to Roll_ and not the _Difficulty Factor_ below.) You may think there’s something wrong with the diagram because 1 die/Hard and 2 dice/Hard have the same chance to succeed. But for 1 die you have to roll a 6 to get another die (blowing the top of), and it has to be a 6 as well if you going to succeed. For 2 dice you also have to roll two 6s to succeed. So you have to roll the same, okay? Task Easy Moderate Hard Very Hard Near Impos. Trait Score >4 or 1d >7 or 2d >11 or 3d >14 or 4d >18 or 5d 1 die 33.3 13.9 2.8 1.9 0.5 2 dice 83.3 41.7 2.8 1.9 0.5 3 dice 98.1 83.3 37.5 9.3 0.5 4 dice 99.9 97.3 76.1 44.4 9.7 5 dice 100.0 99.7 94.1 77.9 40.0 So what do I get out of the diagram? If you have… (Referring to _Trait Score_ against _Dice to Roll_) At least 2 dice more - you have at least 94.1% chance to succeed, you can use automatic success! 1 die more - you have about 80% chance to succeed, se below. Same amount of dice - you have about 40% chance to succeed, se below. 1 die less - you have about 10% chance to succeed (I use Hard as >10), see below. At least 2 dice less - you have at most 2.8% chance to succeed, you can use automatic failure! So I have to get some non-dice task-resolution system for at least 10, 40, and 80% chance to succeed. The best I could come up with is something like stone, paper, and scissors. You use your fingers on both hands. You’re either Pointer or Blocker depending on your chance to succeed. (If you’re Pointer or Blocker have nothing to do with for example if you’re Attacker or Defender.) You Draw against another person, usually the GM against a Player, where one is Pointer and the other Blocker. Both with the same number of fingers to split between left and right hand, depending on chance to succeed. Blocker trying to match the Pointers Draw. For example when you Draw 2 fingers, you can draw (left - right hand) 2-0, 1-1, or 0-2. If you’re the Blocker you should try to match to Pointer with same amount of fingers on each hand, your left hand against his right, and your right hand against his left. An example: It’s time for a task resolution. The GM looks at a Player and points 3 fingers at himself, indicating number of fingers and that he (GM) is Blocker and the Player is Pointer. The GM (Blocker) counts to three, and shows 2-1 (left - right hand), the Player (Pointer) shows 1-2 (left – right hand). The Blockers (GM’s) left hand has the same amount of fingers as the Pointers (Player’s) right hand, and vice versa. The Pointer (Player) has failed the task. If you use this in combat count the success as 3 (for Damage calculation). Below you have a diagram that shows your chance to succeed depending on if you’re Pointer or Blocker and number of fingers. Side 1 finger 2 fingers 3 fingers 4 fingers Pointer 50 (1/2) 66,7 (2/3) 75 (3/4) 80 (4/5) Blocker 50 (1/2) 33,3 (1/3) 25 (1/4) 20 (1/5) So what do I get out of this diagram? I needed task-resolution for about 10, 40, and 80%, here I get 25, 50, and 75%. It’s fine by me. The diagram below shows who is going to be Pointer/Blocker and numbers of fingers. Side 1 finger 2 fingers 3 fingers 4 fingers Pointer 0 0b/+1p +1 +1b/+2p Blocker 0 0p/-1b -1 -1p/-2b +1/+2: Trait Score 1 or 2 dice more than Dice to Roll. - -1/-2: Trait Score 1 or 2 dice less than Dice to Roll. b: Bonus die. p: Penalty die. I haven’t tested this system yet, but I don’t think it’s so complicated as it may seams like the first time you read it. Feel free to ask any question, come with any comment or improvement, or another (better) system! By the way, does anybody know how many subscribers this mailinglist has? Jesper Carlsson [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:00:10 -0500 (EST) From: Zachery Bir Subject: [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? Just finished reading Naked Lunch, and while I noticed the (sort of) note at the beginning of the OtE rulebook mentioning this work as influential to the creation of Over the Edge, I had absolutely no idea just how pervasive the concepts presented in Naked Lunch exist in Al Amarja. So I began to rethink my approach to future OtE campaigns in lieu of the more dark and seedy aspects, to pull Al Amarja a little more in line with Interzone. I was wondering whether any of you had already done this? And to what extent your campaigns have changed. Thanks, Zac [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:11:26 -0700 From: Trevor Stone Subject: Re: [The Edge] OnTE: Cheap Baboon Trick Question Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, "cine" said: >well, personally, I like the idea of the baboon feinging dead in order to >trick someone into attacking and then leaping into action. > It is, after all, a CHEAP Baboon Trick... =-=-=-= Trevor Stone =-=-= aka Flwyd =-=-= tstone @ robin . ml . org =-=-=-= Eclectic philosopher, New Vista computer admin, gamer, witster, esotericist http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Thou roynish mad-bread dogfish! Join the Church of Last Thursday and be saved! http://weber.u.washington.edu/~aexia/thursday.htm [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:25:07 -0600 From: "Luther, Clay" Subject: RE: [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? I have always run my games as if the players were in the midst of a really, really bad acid trip. I am very flexible with reality, casual with the facts, and brutal with the images. In short, I think running a Naked Lunch-esque game (with gratuitous pinches of spice from Lewis Carroll, PK Dick and Vonnegut) is ideal. > -----Original Message----- > From: Zachery Bir [SMTP:zbir@kiva.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 1998 1:00 PM > To: Over the Edge Mailing List > Subject: [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? > > I was wondering whether any of you had already done this? And to what > extent your campaigns have changed. > > Thanks, > > Zac > > > > > > > [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge > [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with > body of > [O] (un)subscribe the-edge [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:51:13 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: [The Edge] WSB influences in your campaigns? On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Zachery Bir wrote: > Just finished reading Naked Lunch, and while I noticed the (sort of) note > at the beginning of the OtE rulebook mentioning this work as influential > to the creation of Over the Edge, I had absolutely no idea just how > pervasive the concepts presented in Naked Lunch exist in Al Amarja. > > So I began to rethink my approach to future OtE campaigns in lieu of the > more dark and seedy aspects, to pull Al Amarja a little more in line with > Interzone. Another instructive Burroughs book would be the Ticket That Exploded, or the rest of his cut-ups trilogy (umm, the Soft Machine, and Nova Express, I think. I can never remember the order they go in, either). As you can tell by the name, the concept of the Cut-ups (if not the execution) is very much drawn from there, and they're a great source of surrealism. Alternately, play with a markov chainer like the one at http://www.cise.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/~mad/BABLE.pl and some interesting files, and put the results in your game. For most entertaining results, I suggest combining Gnostic texts, pornographic fanfiction, and random posts from rpg newsgroups, particularly in-character ones. Joe - ------ Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible. "We prefer our metaphysics with a money-back guarantee."-- Penn & Teller How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #26 ******************************* [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest To get off digest, subscribe the-edge [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org