From: owner-the-edge-digest@ (The Edge Digested) To: the-edge-digest@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: The Edge Digested V1 #7 Reply-To: the-edge@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Sender: owner-the-edge-digest@ Errors-To: owner-the-edge-digest@ Precedence: bulk The Edge Digested Sunday, November 23 1997 Volume 01 : Number 007 Today's subjects from The Edge: [The Edge] Random Words [The Edge] Re:The Chaos Plague [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Re: [The Edge] Re:The Chaos Plague Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Re: [The Edge] Random Words Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information [The Edge] Cold Numbers & DIY ONTE Cards Re: [The Edge] Random Words Re: [The Edge] Random Words [The Edge] Digest mode, and a plea [The Edge] Cold Numbers Re: [The Edge] Weather the Cuckoo Like Re: [The Edge] Re:The Chaos Plague Re: [The Edge] Cold Numbers [The Edge] The Name Throckmorton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:06:47 -0600 From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: [The Edge] Random Words If you want a selection of random words for cut-ups, try taking a chapter each out of 20 online books. Or select a specific book or author to set a desired tone. A multitude of books are available through the World Wide Web on the Online Books Page at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/booklists.html - Elizabeth Bartley [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:19:45 -0500 (EST) From: AtlasGames@AOL.COM Subject: [The Edge] Re:The Chaos Plague In a message dated 11/20/97 2:34:38 AM, you wrote: >where is Chaos Plague? Off in the nether regions of indefinitely postponed projects. When/if we'll ever do it is uncertain...we're focusing on other matters right now (more about that later), and the WotC CCG patent is just one more good reason not to publish anything CCG-related right now. (Let someone else spend their money overturning a patent that should never have been granted.) - -jn [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:23:52 -0500 (EST) From: AtlasGames@AOL.COM Subject: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Cloaks The Over the Edge(TM) Sourcebook of Secret Agents by Jonathan Tweet This long-awaited book is, according to highly placed sources in several supranational intelligence organizations, a carefully encrypted communication. Sleeper agents receiving this transmission will understand what to do. Decode and follow the hidden instructions. Your years of training are coming to fruition; your years of silent immersion among these strangers you pretend to know will soon be at an end. For the rest of you reading this -- well, this remains on the face of it a sourcebook of secret agents for the Over the Edge role-playing game of surreal danger. It includes the gadgets and fringe powers of Al Amarja's secret agents (known as "cloaks"), new characters to bring into your series, a major plot revolving around secret agents, plus lots of smaller story ideas to put everything in the book to good use. In short, it is a book that no Over the Edge GM should go without. So whoever you are, do not hesitate. Buy this book. Cover Art by C. Brent Ferguson Length: 88 pages, perfect bound Product Number: AG2303 ISBN: 1-887801-61-8 Suggested Retail Price: $17.95 COMING IN MARCH 1998 Over the Edge is a trademark of John Nephew, used under license by Trident, Inc. Copr.1997 Trident, Inc. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:50:46 -0600 (CST) From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information At 01:23 PM 11/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >Cloaks >The Over the Edge(TM) Sourcebook of Secret Agents >by Jonathan Tweet >So whoever you are, do not hesitate. Buy this book. > >Cover Art by C. Brent Ferguson >Length: 88 pages, perfect bound ^^^^^^^^ >Product Number: AG2303 >ISBN: 1-887801-61-8 >Suggested Retail Price: $17.95 ^^^^^^ Ouch! I will certainly buy it, but I would think that that much money for that many pages will scare a lot people away from it. It is quite a raise from the ten dollars for _Players' Survival guide_, 11 for _Wildest Dreams_, 12 for _The Myth of Self_, and 13 for _Weather the Cuckoo Likes_. The same thing happened with Kult: it was relatively cheap and then they started putting out those thin books for 18 dollars (of course those books were entirely made of glossy color pages). Well, I hope it is well received, but I'm afraid the cost will be detrimental. Perhaps _Over The Edge_ is mostly supported by a cult following, so it doesn't matter much. Of course, the back cover of OTE 2nd edition implied that that was trying to be turned around (i.e. there was an attempt being made to bring OTE more into the main stream). David - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Standing in my yard where they tore down the garage to make room for the torn down garage -- A Self Called Nowhere; They Might be Giants [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:15:40 -0800 (PST) From: Bryant Durrell Subject: Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information David Ebrey writes: > At 01:23 PM 11/20/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Length: 88 pages, perfect bound > ^^^^^^^^ > >Suggested Retail Price: $17.95 > ^^^^^^ > Ouch! > > I will certainly buy it, but I would think that that much money for that > many pages will scare a lot people away from it. It is quite a raise from > the ten dollars for _Players' Survival guide_, 11 for _Wildest Dreams_, 12 > for _The Myth of Self_, and 13 for _Weather the Cuckoo Likes_. The same > thing happened with Kult: it was relatively cheap and then they started > putting out those thin books for 18 dollars (of course those books were > entirely made of glossy color pages). > Well, I hope it is well received, but I'm afraid the cost will be > detrimental. Perhaps _Over The Edge_ is mostly supported by a cult > following, so it doesn't matter much. Of course, the back cover of OTE 2nd > edition implied that that was trying to be turned around (i.e. there was an > attempt being made to bring OTE more into the main stream). Heh. I wanna hear the rant about how games don't cost enough again. (Seriously. It's an excellent rant, John knows what he's talking about, and the more people who hear it the better.) Executive summary: the current pricing structure for RPGs means that *every single release* has to sell out in order for a gaming company to maintain profitability. There's no margin for error; no room for a less popular book that only sells half the print run. This is suicidal, and the industry can't afford it. - -- Bryant Durrell [] durrell@innocence.com [] http://www.innocence.com/~durrell [----------------------------------------------------------------------------] "Too much of a good thing is WONDERFUL." -- Mae West [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:06:10 -0700 From: tstone@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: Re: [The Edge] Re:The Chaos Plague Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, AtlasGames@AOL.COM said: >>where is Chaos Plague? > >Off in the nether regions of indefinitely postponed projects. Figured as much. By all means do projects that will get more cash flow so you can stay in business. In a similar chain of thought, around the time I first joined this list (year and a half ago, IIRC), the announcement was made that WetWorks wouldn't happen, a group of people decided to do a 'net expansion called Cold Numbers. Did this die? I seem to recall it had a lot of enthusiasm for a while, then I haven't heard anything about it. Was there anything produced that we can look at? ### Trevor Stone # New Vista Computer Admin # tstone@robin.ml.org [O] ### http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Curses, contests, games, etc. [O] ### I can't do it cap'n! She's runnin' Windows '95! [O] ### Curse of the moment: Thou gorbellied weak-hinged pignut! ### [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:14:38 -0600 (CST) From: David Ebrey Subject: Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information >Heh. I wanna hear the rant about how games don't cost enough again. >(Seriously. It's an excellent rant, John knows what he's talking >about, and the more people who hear it the better.) > >Executive summary: the current pricing structure for RPGs means that >*every single release* has to sell out in order for a gaming company >to maintain profitability. There's no margin for error; no room for >a less popular book that only sells half the print run. This is >suicidal, and the industry can't afford it. I am not saying that Atlas Games is doing the wrong thing: I figure they understand their economics better than I do. I am just saying it is too bad, since I think it will diminish their chances for expanding their audience. The 2nd edition was only 25 dollars, and it was 240 pages. I think most gamers are willing to pick up something like that. But this is in a whole different ball park. Maybe people will become so enamored by the main book that they will pay whatever they can for the supplements (I know that fits my description. . .). Seems like a poor principle to have to rely on, but maybe not. David - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Standing in my yard where they tore down the garage to make room for the torn down garage -- A Self Called Nowhere; They Might be Giants [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:22:14 -0700 From: tstone@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, David Ebrey said: >>Heh. I wanna hear the rant about how games don't cost enough again. >>(Seriously. It's an excellent rant, John knows what he's talking >>about, and the more people who hear it the better.) >> >>Executive summary: the current pricing structure for RPGs means that >>*every single release* has to sell out in order for a gaming company >>to maintain profitability. There's no margin for error; no room for >>a less popular book that only sells half the print run. This is >>suicidal, and the industry can't afford it. > >I am not saying that Atlas Games is doing the wrong thing: I figure they >understand their economics better than I do. I am just saying it is too >bad, since I think it will diminish their chances for expanding their >audience. The 2nd edition was only 25 dollars, and it was 240 pages. I >think most gamers are willing to pick up something like that. But this is >in a whole different ball park. > I think this is along the right lines. The main sourcebook is something everyone can use, and should be pretty easy to get. Once you've played for a while and decide you like the game, you decide what directions you want to specialize in. Plus, with a specialized book (not everyone will buy Cloaks), there is about the same base cost without as many buyers. John can elaborate on the economics if he wants, but it's the same thing in other games. I don't really mind having suplimentary books which are smaller and cost almost as much. I accept it, it seems pretty clear that that's the way it has to work. It means I don't get as many source books as I would if they were cheaper, but that's the way it's supposed to be anyway. Anway. ### Trevor Stone # New Vista Computer Admin # tstone@robin.ml.org [O] ### http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Curses, contests, games, etc. [O] ### I can't do it cap'n! She's runnin' Windows '95! [O] ### Curse of the moment: Thou weedy plume-plucked measle! ### [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:23:09 -0600 (CST) From: Russ Collins Subject: Re: [The Edge] Random Words On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > > If you want a selection of random words for cut-ups, try taking a > chapter each out of 20 online books. Or select a specific book or > author to set a desired tone. A multitude of books are available > through the World Wide Web on the Online Books Page at: > > http://www.cs.cmu.edu/booklists.html > I generally just use suggested words from my spell-checker program... Russ Collins rgc@io.com - -- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email) at and tell your Congresspeople how Spam mailings hurt you. Help protect genuine Internet commerce: Outlaw UCE Spamming. (This anti-Spam signature is available rent-free. Inquire within) [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:53:34 -0500 From: "John M. Baker" Subject: Re: [The Edge] CLOAKS Information At 12:50 PM 11/20/97 -0600, you wrote: >At 01:23 PM 11/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Cloaks >>The Over the Edge(TM) Sourcebook of Secret Agents >>by Jonathan Tweet > > > >>So whoever you are, do not hesitate. Buy this book. >> >>Cover Art by C. Brent Ferguson >>Length: 88 pages, perfect bound > ^^^^^^^^ >>Product Number: AG2303 >>ISBN: 1-887801-61-8 > >>Suggested Retail Price: $17.95 > ^^^^^^ >Ouch! > > I will certainly buy it, but I would think that that much money for that >many pages will scare a lot people away from it. It is quite a raise from >the ten dollars for _Players' Survival guide_, 11 for _Wildest Dreams_, 12 >for _The Myth of Self_, and 13 for _Weather the Cuckoo Likes_. The same >thing happened with Kult: it was relatively cheap and then they started >putting out those thin books for 18 dollars (of course those books were >entirely made of glossy color pages). But isn't that the trend of ALL RPGs as of late? The prices of all these books, no matter what the art direction and production quality, have been skyrocketing as of late. This more than anything might be the real reason that RPG sales haven't done well recently... why spend $18 on the book when you can get similar results with your imagination for free? Of course, if you suffer from chronic imagination impairment... John Baker (Mutant, Fringe) The above statements are meant as questions about the industry. I will continue to support Atlas Games in their relentless pursuit of creativity with monetary donations. Thank you for setting your minds on overdrive. May you get an entry in the Happy Mutant Handbook. [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:06:48 -0600 From: "Paul J. Lareau" Subject: [The Edge] Cold Numbers & DIY ONTE Cards tstone@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us wrote: In a similar chain of thought, around the time I first joined this list > (year and a half ago, IIRC), the announcement was made that WetWorks wouldn't > happen, a group of people decided to do a 'net expansion called Cold Numbers. > Did this die? I seem to recall it had a lot of enthusiasm for a while, then > I haven't heard anything about it. Was there anything produced that we can > look at? I used to have a link to that material, which used to be out on the Drawn's Workshop site, but I see I have a bad link to there. The link on the cross-reference page: http://public.carleton.edu/~djohnson/onte/ doesn't work. Anybody know where Dave(?) Johnson is now? He had a lot of imaginative potential cards out there. I have some others on my site, but they're cross-genre between ONTE and my favorite PBEM world, so not really appropriate for use in ONTE...came out nice, though. http://www.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/ontesuns.html - -- Paul J. Lareau ON THE BRINK OF THE EDGE http://www.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/onte.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [POST] 135 E. Viking Dr. #301, Little Canada MN 55117 USA [HOME PAGE] http://www.wavefront.com/~pjlareau/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:37:56 -0800 (PST) From: David Thomas Fisher Subject: Re: [The Edge] Random Words > If you want a selection of random words for cut-ups, try taking a > chapter each out of 20 online books. Or select a specific book or > author to set a desired tone. A multitude of books are available > through the World Wide Web on the Online Books Page at: > > http://www.cs.cmu.edu/booklists.html > I generally just use suggested words from my spell-checker program... You know, on the Razor's Edge, there is a bookstore on the west side of the Plaza of Science known as the Fairy Tale Bookstore. The bookstore offers a book, an untitled book with a brown cover, that randomly generates an absurdist prose poem when read. Dig this sample: Uproot fantasy! Anharmonic evergreen wrought! UHF Zellerbach Ave SD ebullient Geigy Oakland. Frances... BSTJ impermissible downcast, GSA oaken... Hrothgar customary. The Razor's Edge is an Over the Edge MUD. Visit the Razor's Edge at telnet://arcadia.wuh.wustl.edu:100 or visit the website at http://arcadia.wuh.wustl.edu/~razor/ for more information. - -- David Fisher (davefish@cory.eecs.berkeley.edu) "Seduced, shaggy Samson snored./ She scissored short. Sorely shorn,/ Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,/ Silently scheming/ Sightlessly seeking/ Some savage, spectacular suicide." - Stanislaw Lem, "The Cyberiad" [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:41:47 -0800 (PST) From: David Thomas Fisher Subject: Re: [The Edge] Random Words telnet://arcadia.wuh.wustl.edu:100 or visit the website at I meant telnet://arcadia.wuh.wustl.edu:1000 really. Wups. - -- David Fisher (davefish@cory.eecs.berkeley.edu) "Seduced, shaggy Samson snored./ She scissored short. Sorely shorn,/ Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,/ Silently scheming/ Sightlessly seeking/ Some savage, spectacular suicide." - Stanislaw Lem, "The Cyberiad" [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 03:11:30 GMT From: jboes@qtm.net (Jeff Boes) Subject: [The Edge] Digest mode, and a plea =46olks, now that the list offers digest mode, let us PLEASE take a = pledge of sanity. Learn to use your e-mail software, and scroll down in your = message past what you can see of your own typing. Then delete all the stuff that your software quotes from the message to which you are replying. It's no fun getting a digest which is 250 lines of=20 >>>>>>>>>what he said over and over again. - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~|The tusks that clashed in mighty brawls of mastodons are |billiard balls./The sword of Charlemagne the Just is Jeffery Boes |ferric oxide, known as rust./The grizzly bear whose potent jboes@qtm.net|hug was feared by all, is now a rug./Great Caesar's bust UIN 3394914 |is on the shelf, and I don't feel so well myself. |"On the Vanity of Earthly Greatness", A.Guiterman = (1871-1943) [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 07:23:00 -0500 (EST) From: StevenA197@AOL.COM Subject: [The Edge] Cold Numbers Yes, Cold Numbers did die... but not before we designed about 100 neat cards. I recall there's a website somewhere, but I've never seen it. I still have the text of the 40-some cards I designed, and artwork for about a dozen. --S [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:02:29 -0500 (EST) From: Spike Y Jones Subject: Re: [The Edge] Weather the Cuckoo Like I played in Robin Laws' first *Over The Edge* campaign (although it was then a playtest for a game simply called Al Amarja) and the Cut-Ups method worked fine there. But it does take a strong and imaginative GM (as well as flexible players) to make it work. [O] [O] [O] Spike Y Jones [O]Spike[O] Freelance writer, editor, proofreader, and bingo-caller [O] [O] [O] spikeyj@access.digex.net http://www.io.com/~spikeyj/ [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:27:26 -0500 (EST) From: Tammy Tayman Subject: Re: [The Edge] Re:The Chaos Plague Doesn't the fact that the original game (OTE) came out before the patent was even applied for mean that you folks don't have to worry about it?!? T1 On Thu, 20 Nov 1997 AtlasGames@AOL.COM wrote: > > In a message dated 11/20/97 2:34:38 AM, you wrote: > > >where is Chaos Plague? > > Off in the nether regions of indefinitely postponed projects. When/if we'll > ever do it is uncertain...we're focusing on other matters right now (more > about that later), and the WotC CCG patent is just one more good reason not > to publish anything CCG-related right now. (Let someone else spend their > money overturning a patent that should never have been granted.) > > -jn > > [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge > [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of > [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add > [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:21:06 -0500 (EST) From: David Freier Subject: Re: [The Edge] Cold Numbers I don't think the actual Cold Numbers web page is still up and functioning, but I prepared sample playtest cards for all of the cards on the original website. If people are interested and as I get the time I will try to post groups of them to the list. David Freier Friend of Constance's Bodyguard Co-Ordinator Brotherhood of the Resounding Liberty Bell [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 11:23:33 -0700 From: tstone@robin-nvh.bvsd.k12.co.us Subject: [The Edge] The Name Throckmorton Yesterday at the bookstore I picked up a copy of The Meaning of Liff by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd. It's a book which takes a bunch of funny sounding place names and provides humorous definitions for them. While flipping through it, the following entry cought my eye: Throckmomrton (n.) The soul of a departed madman: one of those now known to inhabit the timing mechanism of pop-up toasters. The town which they took this name from is in west Texas, but there is also a Throckmorton, TN. Do either of these cities have anything to do with the Throckmorton we all know and behave? Or is it just a weird cooincidence? The Meaning of Liff, as we discovered last night, can be an interesting cut-ups like way of coming up with character names... ### Trevor Stone # New Vista Computer Admin # tstone@robin.ml.org [O] ### http://robin.ml.org/~tstone/ Curses, contests, games, etc. [O] ### I can't do it cap'n! She's runnin' Windows '95! [O] ### Curse of the moment: Thou jarring ill-breeding flap-dragon! ### [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge your@email.add ------------------------------ End of The Edge Digested V1 #7 ****************************** [O] You received this message because you are subscribed to the-edge-digest [0] To (un)subscribe, send a message to majordomo@robin.ml.org with body of [O] (un)subscribe the-edge-digest your@email.add [O] To post a message, send it to the-edge@robin.ml.org